I was having a conversation with someone yesterday about Africa. He's a Black man nearing retirement. I asked him whether he had ever given consideration to living his retirement years in Africa and this look of shock and horror came across his face.

He then began to tell me about seeing Smokey Robinson recently on some program...he couldn't remember the name of the program but it sounded as though it was a poetry jam because Smokey was reciting poetry and his theme was about why he wouldn't live in Africa, knew nothing about Africa, doesn't consider himself as an African...etc.

Does anyone know what that program could have been and did you see it?

I'm curious as to whether this guy's interpretation is correct or not.

Liv, you raise some good points and offer much to think about. I too believe that charity begins at home and home is where the heart is. I admit that I do romanticize Africa and my dreams of her. I realize too that I don't know nearly enough about her and the struggles or the achievements that come forth out of Africa. But I feel it's important to know and to learn because I can't separate myself from her completely. I know this isn't what you meant but I'm just thinking about what you wrote as I type.

Personally, I think that all of us have something to offer Africa, whether it's the skills we've learned from a trade or a craft that we've been blessed to have or just a simple desire to reach out and offer emotional or spiritual support. True, the hard truth is that Africa can stand to benefit from the technical skills of many who have those skills. As compared to America, sure the economic, political and maybe even cultural truths might be discouraging to some but I think it all depends on from which vantage point a person views the situation--is the glass half empty or is it half full?

I think for most it does take a great deal of soul searching and private and public debate about the issues involved, the changes that will be required in each person contemplating such a transition and a host of emotional attachments that people will have to assess.

Africa may not be for everyone...it may not be considered "home" for even many Blacks--and that's ok. We need to spread out and cover the planet to lend our talents and expertise in all parts of the world. But for many of us, we are thirsty for something more that only the wells in Africa can quench.

Thanks Liv. You offer good food for thought and interesting debate!

Peace.

Haki aint as progressive as he used to be. (neither is wade nobles, molefi asante and a host of others who seem more into their tenure and professorships than their ideologies. lol)

yeah smokey african. but we dont claim him. lol (not in the diaspora or africa)

now i could crack a joke about his old crackhead habits. but i wont.

hummmmmmmmm!!!

lol@ifasehun

THe name of the program was Russell SImmons presents Def Poetry. It comes on HBO late at night around 11PM or later

Thank you First Lady 2004!

The poem that Smokey Robinson recited was on Russell Simons Presents: Def Poetry on HBO. It comes on around 11:00 p.m. if you live in the Central Time zone. I was told that it's called Black Arfrican-American.

Thanks Margalo and welcome to the forums. :)

I saw him on Def Poetry Jam I didnt' agree w/ the entire poem but I thought most of it was on point.

do anybody remember what that poem read ?

The Black American……

I love being Black. I love being called Black. I love being an American.
I love being a Black American, but as a Black man in this country I think it’s a shame
That every few years we get a change of name.

Since those first ships arrived here from Africa that came across the sea
There were already Black men in this country who were free.
And as for those that came over here on those terrible boats,
They were called *****h and slave
And told what to do and how to behave.

And then master started trippin’ and doing his midnight tippin’,
Down to the slave shacks where he forced he and Great-Great Grandma to be together,
And if Great-Great Grandpa protested, he got tarred and feathered.


And at the same time, the Black men in the country who were free,
Were mating with the tribes like the Apache and the Cherokee.
And as a result of all that, we’re a parade of every shade.
And as in this late day and age, you can be sure,
They ain’t too many of us in this country whose bloodline is pure.


But, according to a geological, geographical, genealogy study published in Time Magazine,
The Black African people were the first on the scene,
So for what it’s worth, the Black African people were the first on earth
And through migration, our characteristics started to change, and rearrange,
To adapt to whatever climate we migrated to.
And that’s how I became me, and you became you.

So, if we gonna go back, let’s go all the way back,
And if Adam was Black and Eve was Black,
Then that kind of makes it a natural fact that everybody in America is an African American.

Everybody in Europe is an African European; everybody in the Orient is an African Asian
And so on and so on,
That is, if the origin of man is what we’re gonna go on.
And if one drop of Black blood makes you Black like they say,
Then everybody’s Black anyway.

So quit trying to change my identity.
I’m already who I was meant to be
I’m a Black American, born and raised.
And brother James Brown wrote a wonderful phrase,
“Say it loud, I’m Black and I’m proud! Say it loud, I’m Black and I’m proud!”



Cause I’m proud to be Black and I ain’t never lived in Africa,
And ‘cause my Great-Great Granddaddy on my Daddy’s side did, don’t mean I want to go back.
Now I have nothing against Africa,
It’s where some of the most beautiful places and people in the world are found.
But I’ve been blessed to go a lot of places in this world,
And if you ask me where I choose to live, I pick America, hands down.

Now, by and by, we were called Negroes, and after while, that name has vanished.
Anyway, Negro is just how you say “black” in Spanish.
Then, we were called colored, but ****, everybody’s one color or another,
And I think it’s a shame that we hold that against each other.

And it seems like we reverted back to a time when being called Black was an insult,
Even if it was another Black man who said it, a fight would result,
Cause we’ve been so brainwashed that Black was wrong,
So that even the yellow *****hs and black *****hs couldn’t get along.

But then, came the 1960s when we struggled and died to be called equal and Black,
And we walked with pride with our heads held high and our shoulders pushed back,
And Black was beautiful.

But, I guess that wasn’t good enough,
Cause now here they come with some other stuff.
Who comes up with this **** anyway?
Was it one, or a group of *****hs sitting around one day?

Feelin’ a little insecure again about being called Black
And decided that African American sounded a little more exotic.
Well, I think you were being a little more neurotic.

It’s that same mentality that got “Amos and Andy” put off the air,
Cause’ they were embarrassed about the way the character’s spoke.
And as a result of that action, a lot of wonderful Black actors ended up broke.
When we were just laughin’ and have fun about ourselves.
So I say, “**** you if you can’t take a joke.”
You didn’t see the “Beverly Hillbilly’s” being protested by white folks.

And if you think, that cause you think that being called African American set all Black people’s mind at ease…..

Since we affectionately call each other “*****h”,

I affectionately say to you, “*****h Please”.

How come I didn’t get the chance to vote on who I’d like to be?
Who gave you the right to make that decision for me?
I ain’t under your rule or in your dominion
And I am entitled to my own opinion.


Now there are some African Americans here,
But they recently moved here from places like Kenya, Ethiopia, Zambia, Zimbabwe, and Zaire.
But, now the brother who’s family has lived in the country for generations,
Occupying space in all the locations
New York, Miami, L.A., Detroit, Chicago-
Even if he’s wearing a dashiki and sporting an afro.

And, if you go to Africa in search of your race,
You’ll find out quick you’re not an African American,
You’re just a Black American in Africa takin’ up space.

Why you keep trying to attach yourself to a continent,
Where if you got the chance and you went,
Most people there would even claim you as one of them; as a pure bread daughter or son of them.
Your heritage is right here now, no matter what you call yourself or what you say
And a lot of people died to make it that way.
And if you think America is a leader on inequality and suffering and grievin’
How come there so many people comin’ and so few leavin’?

Rather than all this ‘find fault with America’ **** you promotin’,
If you want to change something, use your privilege, get to the polls!
Commence to votin’!

God knows we’ve earned the right to be called American Americans and be free at last.
And rather than you movin’ forward progress, you dwelling in the past.
We’ve struggled too long; we’ve come too far.
Instead of focusing on who we were, let’s be proud of who we are.

We are the only people whose name is always a trend.
When is this **** gonna end?
Look at all the different colors of our skin-
Black is not our color. It’s our core.
It’s what we been livin’ and fightin’ and dyin’ for.

But if you choose to be called African American and that’s your preference
Then I ‘ll give you that reference

But I know on this issue I don’t stand alone on my own and if I do, then let me be me
And I’d appreciate it if when you see me, you’d say, “there goes a man who says it loud I’m Black. I’m Black. I’m a Black American, and I’m proud

Cause I love being an American. And I love being Black. I love being called Black.

Yeah, I said it, and I don’t take it back.

Smokey, is misquided. You cannot disconnect from your mother. Yes we have survived here, some of us have so-called made it but look at us, we are a self-hating people for the most part. OUr roots are in Afrika. OUr soul is is Afraka, our ancestors are in Afraka. How dare he ask any person of AFrakan heritage to deny this and make believe that we shouldn't love our motherland.

Smokey is very individualistic and selfish. Just because he got a little cash, white folks approve of him, he wants to pretend that he got all his talent all his soul all his everything from the moon!

No!, he got if from Afrika.

We are mere vessels carrying the the blood of our ancestors.

Several of my friends live in Afrika, have visited Afrika, love Afrika and yes Afrikans from all over want us there and hold ceremonies welcoming us home.

Too bad the brother is confused. May the ancestors forgive him.

pdiane...Welcome :wave: and thank you for your passionate message!

I agree with you. I had the opportunity recently to actually hear Smokey read the poem posted here and sadly, what I suspected is true. I was offended by most of it but particularly when he said:

"Cause I’m proud to be Black and I ain’t never lived in Africa,
And ‘cause my Great-Great Granddaddy on my Daddy’s side did, don’t mean I want to go back. Now I have nothing against Africa,
It’s where some of the most beautiful places and people in the world are found. But I’ve been blessed to go a lot of places in this world, and if you ask me where I choose to live, I pick America, hands down."

And this was just plain dumb:

"Why you keep trying to attach yourself to a continent, Where if you got the chance and you went, Most people there would not even claim you as one of them; as a pure bred daughter or son of them. Your heritage is right here now, no matter what you call yourself or what you say, And a lot of people died to make it that way. And if you think America is a leader on inequality and suffering and grievin’, How come there so many people comin’ and so few leavin’?"

The title of Smokey's song "Tears of A Clown" takes on a new meaning for me now! :rolleyes:

I'm new to the forum and would like to say "hi" to everyone. With that being said, I feel compelled to post a "controversial" defense of Smokey Robinson's poem..LOL. My interpretation wasn' that Smokey is dissing Africans or African culture but is highlighting that fact that Blacks in the United States have a distinct heritage and should be proud of our accomplishments as Americans. Most Blacks in the Diapora can identify with a legacy of miscegention, color complexes and being treated as less than human beings. We all have faced oppression and the screwed up psychological traumas that go along with it. I found Mr. Robinson's poem wery insightful and empowering. We don't have to keep changing our names to figure out who we are. It's clear when looking at most of us that we of our African descent but our experiences are purely American. If we can look at the bad in being black in America we should be honest with ourselves and look at the good. We have, more than any other group influenced all the great cultural aspects of "America." America is a brand marketed all over the world and that brand, which includes it's art, music and legacy, greatly reflects African slaves and their descendants.

We've created art forms and fought for civil rights...Let's take credit for that. Even in slavery we were keen enough to sing encoded sprituals and come up with complex escape plans. We are descendants of a masterful group of people who not only survived but "created" and "changed" things. I'm proud of those people who were cut off from their homeland, their religion and their native tongue but who endured and wouldn't stop fighting for freedom. I'm proud of their children who suffered the indiginity of being "separate but equal" and jim crow laws, I'm proud of their children who were brutalized and humilated but stood steadfast for civil rights. I'm proud that we are finally getting to a place where we don't have to fight so hard and can reflect on our African heritage in a positive way. So, in essence I'm proud of what it means to be a Black American and you should be too.

Although I agree with you sister on many points I beg to differ with your pespective of what smokey is talking about.

The brother wants us to disconnect from our mother and that is very hurtful to me as a person of Afrakan descent.

I find many of my brothers and sisters of the diaspora never have had the opportunity to go to Afraka or even deal with Afrakans ona daily basis. I have been blessed to do both and I must say, that we have so much in common. In my community, I take Afrakan dance classes 4 times a week. We also have celebrations together. On Sunday we celebrated the life of Olatunji, Mongo Santamaria, Chico PUente and others. We played their music. At that affair it was clearly visible that we have a great connection to one another. I am also on the board of an Afro-centric school, that has several Afrakan teachers. They teach our children the Wolof language of Senegal and Afrakan dances and song. We in turn have traditional jazz concerts as well as gospel celebrations. We are learning from each other.

There are so many dances in Afraka, that have so many different meanings. The steps are intracate and meaningful. Certain songs go with certain dances, it's a beautiful thing.

your statement "we are finally getting to a place were we don't have to fight so hard" is the furthest from the truth. I think you need to preface that statement by the words that "we as a people think...."

I am trying extremely hard not to be condecending but you and I see two different amerikkkas and it has nothing to do with our accomplishments. It has everything to do with white supremacy.

As I said before, smokey has a little money and enough white blood in him to make him think that he does not need to connect to our mother, but he doesn't address this system that profiles our men and miseducates our children. He is in denial!

Now I have some books and sites for you my sister. I do not blame you because most of us don't have a clue to how and why should never make ignorant statements like smokey.

Afraka is our land too, and now we can specifically find out what nation of people our ancestors are from through DNA. Howard University Scientists have a website for that.

Afraka has the most resources imaginable. Why should we let europeans, arabs and asians take if from her. We must connect to her so that we can trade and control those resources. We have the scientific, intellectual power among us Blacks in the diaspora to take back what is ours and form relationships with our people in AFraka. The potential is abound.

Here are some books and websites for you:

www.homestead.com/wysinger/anceintafrica.html
www.swagga.com

"Civilization or Barbarianism" Cheik Anta Diop
"The Destruction of African Civilization" Chancelor Williams
"The Philosophy and Opinions of Marcus Garvey" (Danzel recommended this book to the character on Antoine Fisher)

Peace to you. Hotep

Welcome to our Forums! Good to have you join us! :wave:

Thank you for adding your articulate perspective on Smokey's poem. I don't disagree with your basic premise but I do respectfully disagree with your interpretation.

I am extremely proud sister to be African. So much so that it doesn't surprise me in the least when I look at the exhaustive list of our accomplishments in America and around the world. The fact that we have to continue pointing it out and reminding ourselves and everyone else says a lot to me as a conscious Sister! Trust me, I'm not in the least delusional about the way I view Smokey's poem.

Yes, I'm an American, but I claim and wear my heritage as an African more proudly because I've never been made to feel welcome here or at home.

But, Sister, even though to some degree I don't agree with your interpretation of Smokey's poem, I do agree with your message of self-pride and self-love.

pdiane...great post!

Peace! :)

Thank you for welcoming me, NNQueen and Pdiane. I appreciate your thoughts. I tend to get so wrapped up expressing my pride that I sometime come off as very idealistic; but please understand that I am fully aware of the realities of this land. My defense of Smokey came because what I gleaned from his poem was an attempt to express black pride. (There were parts I didn't feel he articulated well and some parts I didn't agree with-- like the part about Africans not accepting us or liking us for that matter.)

My different perspective comes from being very familiar with black people like Smokey. I live in the south and I've heard the statement "I've never been to Africa, so I'm not African-American" so many times! I, like you, thought these people were so out of touch and found it very sad that they didn't embrace that part of themselves. I've learned that people who make statements like that are either not proud of their African heritage or are purely arguing over semantics. The latter are saying "I'm just as 'American' as the anyone else and don't appreciate being hypenated." They still have pride in being a person of African descent. I'm not sure which one Smokey is and I don't want to guess. What I appreciated was that he put pen to paper to write an ode to being black in America. That is the point of view I sought to stress.

Pdiane, I apppreciate you taking the time to list some books of interest. You have no way of knowing this but I am an avid reader of our history, so I thank you for the future additions to my library! I have to share with you, that when I was preparing to go to my predominately white college, I read so many books to armor myself against what I preceived would be a very racist institution. I chose to attend that school because I felt we have earned the right to go anywhere we please and I wanted to show them the strength of an educated black woman. ( And I wanted to shake it up a bit with my militant presence) When a black person is educated about their history and culture they become a force that scares the crap out of white folks. My armor worked and I knew the real history and not "his story." In the end, I learned that my school wasn't racist but uninformed. I took it upon myself to inform them. Okay, so why the inspiring little story? Because, we have to have pride in who we fully are....African AND American. Never denying any aspect of ourselves. Support for Africa in this forum is unquestionable so I wanted to highlight another aspect.

Sorry this post is so tangential but it's very late and I wanted to respond:)

smokey is black and proud of what was accomplished here in
America........from the front teers of africa ......as a poet i read
between the verses and under the line for the message

in no way did he disowned is people but speak of the struggle and where we are today
what we faced then and now
the pain of how we was stripped from our motherland to America
and what took place in africa ......in full understanding of his poem
i felt him

somebody tell me where he disowned his culture and not accept
who he is and what he is !???????

Sasha...I fully appreciate and respect your opinions and am glad that you felt comfortable enough to express them here. Keep posting Sister. You have a great message to share. We can't and often don't always agree on everything, but because we disagree doesn't mean that positive dialogue should come to a screeching halt.

Good discussion!

Peace! :wave:

All that "smokey istrying to talk about black heritage" mess is bull....pdiane...i suggest that you actually READ the lines to that poem...sweetie.....Write back when you have....

Thanks NNQueen...I am enjoying the discussion. If we all thought alike we would never learn anything new. I'm certain you'll see me posting again!

Firstly, my name is not sweetie. Anyway.

1. "why you keep trying to attach yourself to a continent"
2. "...just a Black American taken up space"
3. "your heritage is here now"
to me, these quotes are ignorant and un-insightful on his part.

1. Where are we suppose to attach ourselves to, amerikkka. We have never been full citizens in this country. i do not have tell you the plethera in injustices against our people that exist to this very day. There are laws and policies as we speak that discriminate against us.

2. Afaka is a huge continent, we wouldn't take up space if every single Afrakan from the diaspora decided to go back there. So what is he talking about?

3. My heritage is in both amerikkka (because with built this country with our inventiveness, innovation and slavery) and in Afraka because the blood of our ancestors are in us today and we display Afrakan culture in churches (call and response), Jazz (displaying the talent of all musicians), song (singing for whatever reason) dancing (dancing for any occasion) humanity( cosmopolitan nature of Afrakans). Most of us look like Afrakans (maybe that's smokey's problem he doesn't look like the average Afrakan, too much white blood, self-hate)

Afrakans however, have different looks because we have been here so long. There are Afrakans that are light. like the people Nelson Mandela comes from and they have no white blood in them. It's called evolution to climate and other factors.

How many great people have told us that we have to know our past before we can move into our future and our past does not start with slavery. It starts with the greatest civilization known to man, and that is ancient Kemet. Why don't you you take some time and go the the Musuems in New York and Boston and see our great artifacts.

Our children need to know that we have been great for thousands of years not a few hundred years and they need to know where that greatness comes from.

As far as I am concerned smokey has a suffers from the "willie lynch syndrome".

Hotep, peace.

ok pdiane, true your name ain't sweetie...So I'm gonna keep this non-hostile,

How are those quotes that you pulled out "ignorant" and "un-insightful"? To me, Smokey is actually making a very good point on us....he says this because even though about 5 generationd of black poeple didn't live in slavery....hell didn't even know how africa looked, they alway try to play that silly ***** race card. And yes, WE are full citizens of this country... you are n AFRICAN-AMERICAN in AMERICA!!!! Unless you took that plane ride to Nigera, you have never seen Africa. Watching those specials on T.V don't count as seeing Africa either.
What he means on us taking up sace is...We are not just AFRICANS, we are AFRICAN AMEICAN!! To some of the real Africans, we are just some damm foriegners trying to "become one" in Africa when we know that we came from Baltimore, or Chicago or Detroit and that really our roots lie THERE! (though if you want to get reall deep, they do lie in Africa) How are we always trying to stake a claim on the family tree in Africa? Yes, of course we all came from Africa, but why spend all that time trying to get back to a place where, half of them wouldn't except you?

On your part 3, i agree somewhat with that explanation

And I even agree with your explanation that the children of today need to get past slavery. And as for Kemet.. I'm not too familar wit that....:( Sorry wish I was but I'm not....

But do me a favor and really read what that mans saying..He isn't bashing any kind of culture.....and I do recall that he said that he was proud to be black :) Hell, you can even read it . Smokey doesn't suffer from any syndromes except the "tired of black poeple tryin to go back to their roots"...I gotta agree with him..its frustrating...he just suffers from the "keepin it real" syndrome.


Thats all.....get in connect with it

I appreciate you striving to keep your comments civil and non-hostile as that is what we promote here and want to continue to enforce. Also, please refrain from using words in your commentary that are inflammatory and on our banned list of profanity. Please refer to our Forum Rules if you need a detailed explanation.

Thank you sis! :)

Wait a minute...NNQueen., is hell on the banned list? And may I ask, was the inflammatory words at? I recall trying to make a solid point, not cussin anyone out...I didn't think "Hell" would be that bad.. and *****? I don't abuse my words...I use them to make a point

Thank you for your post Sasha, I appreciate what you said. I too do not want to ever disregard our struggle and our resistance in amerikkka, our innovation and inventive spirit as well. As you can see i am passionate about our connection to the the motherland though.

We Afrakans in amerikkka must understand is that AFraka belongs to us too. We may not have been there for hundreds of years but we too can claim Afraka in spite of what any Any native
Afrakan who says. It is our land too.

Carter G. Woodson's "Miseducation of the Negroe" says it something like this, ......if you take away a person sense of self than the white man doesn't even have to be around, the negroe will go to the back door without anyone telling him to do so....

This is not a quote.

When I read this poem I see the vestiges of a slave mentality. White people no longer have to tell us to hate our selves we do it happily.

Well I am sorry, I am not the one. Swrt, please read the other statements I made about this poem. I am not going to discuss this further. I referred websites and books for you to understand our connection with the motherland.

I can lead you to water my sister but I can't make you drink.

Hotep, Peace.

Originally posted by SwtT
Wait a minute...NNQueen., is hell on the banned list? And may I ask, was the inflammatory words at? I recall trying to make a solid point, not cussin anyone out...I didn't think "Hell" would be that bad.. and *****? I don't abuse my words...I use them to make a point

SwtT, you are correct. After researching this I found that it was me who over-reacted to what you wrote and not anything that you did to violate the Forum rules. Please accept my most humble apology for any inconvenience this might have caused.

Peace.

Queenie you are such a Queen!!! We're so blessed to have you with us Sister!

SwtT, Sister if you could, please refrain from going around our banned word list by spelling the word in another way (*****). While this is more tolerated in the poetry forums, it is not received well down here in discussions.

Thank you both for being My Sisters!

:heart:

Destee

Oh its ok NNQueen:) :) I'm cool Ill just NOT cuss in any ways next time. Thank you for the Heads up Destee, I'll keep it in mind

I'm Brazilian, and I've been living in the US for 2 yrs, I considered myself uneducated in this delusional world, about Africans and their heritage. I learned a lot of things in the U.S and the most surprising thing that I learnt in the US, is separation of races. Everyone in the US must be categorized in a group, hispanicos, african americans and caucasian. Well, if I had to describe each person, in each group before I came to american I would call them Americanos, but after I came to america I say latino, white and African Americans ( someone told me that is offensive to call African Americans Black), In Brasil I would just say black or neguinha= lil' negro, which I know as considered as derogatory in the US, neguinha in brasil means someone that is kind and beautiful is a compliment we could even call someone that is white of neguinha in Brasil, they would fell flattered; but anyway, my point is that even though in Brasil there is a large population of "Afro- brazilians" , we all call each other Brasileiro, we know we're descendends of Africans but we formed a whole new culture when my African descendents came to Brasil, and blended with the natives. This blend of cultures and races make Brasil a unique and colorful country wich I'm very proud of. No single person in that country may be considered of pure breed, we all have african blood in our veins, but still we are not African no longer we're Brasilians and proud of it. what this has to do with smokey's poem is that I think African American are americans and should be proud of it, blacks don't need to be classified as African American to show others your heritage or to distinguish blacks from other races. Any foreigner can see how Blacks influenced everything around, and how they belong in the U.S more than other race. Black are americanos ( in my opinion) and they suffered more than any other race for this country, they are the ones to be considered true americans.

p.s: my english is limited, I hope everyone got my point

Renata, welcome to our forums and thank you for your enlightening message.

I understand your point that you raise about how Brazilians view themselves and why you think African Americans should view themselves the same way. For some of us, they would agree with you because in a basic sense, it is true--those of us born in America are "Americans."

However, in my view, life isn't always that simple when people have complicated it, as you say, with racial categories to put people in as a by-product of a vicious and foul system known as racism. Maybe Afro-Brazilians don't relate to Afro-Americans that way even though, you came to that country by way of the same slave system.

For me, it's not so much my sense of whether I have a right to be here because of all the contributions we made to this country. I don't want to claim ownership of or connection to any part of a system that serves only to rape, rob, defile and control property and people for cruel and selfish reasons.

The pride that I feel Renata comes from the place where our people originated from. At least you have something you can call a "culture" where you live. I don't think Afro-Americans feel the same way here. Maybe Afro-Brazilians have been successful in blending in and becoming a part of your country--celebrated and respected. I don't think Afro-Americans feel that way here. Maybe Afro-Brazilians don't constantly deal with racist attitudes and treatment everyday. We do here.

Don't think that because we (or many of us do) prefer calling ourselves Africans or African Americans, that we are not a proud people for we are. Don't think that because many of us uplift Africa that we don't recognize our contributions to America and the world because we do.

But maybe Afro-Brazilians are blessed to have been taught and praised for the contributions they have made to Brazil. Maybe you're mentioned in your history textbooks and you grew up being taught about or knowing from whence you proudly came. Maybe part of your teaching and upbringing didn't include sick propaganda about your ancestors being apes and heathens who were uncivilized and needed the white man and his religion to domesticate you. Maybe you didn't suffer the cruel and mind-breaking punishment of being made to feel that you were sub-human, immoral, the only treatment you deserved was to be hanged and raped because you were a low-life n****r. Maybe in Brazil you don't need a 30-day time set aside once a year to see a Black talked about in ways other than on the news accused of the crime of being Black. Maybe you don't have to have special laws established in your country to try to ensure that you're treated equitably and not discriminated against because you're Black.

Thank you sister for your words meant to encourage us and empower us! We are one and may we all come together one day as a people and reclaim what is our right to have--freedom, liberty, justice and our homeland!

Peace! :heart:

Last year I began to consider the underlying messages behind the labels that Africans in Americans use to define ourselves. I call myself Black, or an American of AFRICAN descent. For me, these terms represent my connection to Africans in America and throughout the diaspora. It gives me a sense of peace to know that not only am I connected to A legacy Of black people in America, but also to a continent that is the core of my existance. (whether Brother smokey agrees or not)
With this said, I also understand how hard it was, and still is, for me to let go of the mind frame that caused me to want to be labeled American. Because we are so often overlooked and underapreciated, we have been made to feel like we should fight to claim our place in America. It took a lot of strength and support from other brothers and sisters for me to see that because this country was built on the backs of my Ancestors, my status as an American was never a question. Therefore I don't need to stress it. It is my connection to Africa that has been stigmatized, criticized, and questioned. So, it is my connection to AFrica that I choose to emphasize. I guess some, inluding Smokey, don't see it that way. Much respect nonetheless.

I want to thank and welcome you once more Renata. I truly hope that Brasileiros and black americans close the cultural gap between us. My people come from Southern Mississippi and Louisiana. You may know that in the anti-bellum south i.e. pre 1865, that this part of the country had a heayy influence of Creole culture. I did some research on my family tree and found that some of my ancestors were sold to a plantation in Louisiana from a plantation in Salvador Bahia. In the early 19th century

I think the reason why black people in this country want to be called African americans is because of the very thorough white washing and yes.... brainwashing and what is called breaking of the African Psyche by the Anglo-Saxon slave masters here. So as a result crucial implements like the drum, and ancestor worship were forbidden here, unlike in Brazil and Cuba. We have been trying very hard to regain our connection to the ancestral branch and root. that was taken away from us by our oppressor. THe sort of racism that exist in Brazil, particuliarly in Rio or Sao Paolo are much more subtle. Privilage there, is tied into complexion. which by the way, the same socio-dynamic existed rather overtly here as well in the first half of the20 th century. So suffice to say we are more alike than different, The oppression your brothas and sistahs experience is on a more subte basis, never the less very real. Slave colonies in the western hemisphere were created a de facto caste system not too disimilar to what exist in India this very day. Fair skin people tend to be more formally educated, with better health care and living conditions than brown and black people. This is the legacy of slavery and racism in north, central and south america.

but I digress, this was about Smokey Being African :)

Nevertheless Sekhemu, thank you!

I don't think smokey in any way was trying to disconnect from Africa. I think he clearly stated that he appreciated Africa and was proud of his descent he was also saying that he appreciates what he is now in all aspects and that is an american. If were going to there and say that the first humans derived from Africa than everyone as far as we know can call themselves African American

My two cents......

Calling myself an African American is a slap in the face to the ancestors who were dragged on American shores because they did not choose to migrate to this country, they DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE AMERICAN IN ANY WAY. But their decendents were brainwashed to forget Africa. Therefore, we are a lost people searching for an identity. "African-American" only connects me with "Africa" half way. Trying to be two at once...Like Malcolm said "you're not an American, you are an African who has been living in Amerikkka for 400 years". I do not knock those who choose to call themselves African-American but when you try to bash those who prefer just to call themselves "African"....I believe you're trying to disconnet me from our brothas and sistas at home and that's apart of the Willie Lynch mentality, separating me by adding the term "American"..Oh and as for that lame excuse "if you're going back to your origin, then white people also can claim Africa"....People, we are ONLY removed from our mother for 400 years, that's like a month compared to how long these non-black races are removed. Plus, I don't see whites breaking their necks to claim Africa and if they are, I don't think they have the right to, as much destruction they have done to 'her'..I don't think so..

QUOTE: (Renata) “…,but still we are not African no longer we're Brasilians,…”

Peace, Renata

I have always heard Latin Americans and/or Afro-Latinos talk about their diverse melting-pot cultures. I have a very diverse personal family of Africans, Afro-Latinos and of course African (North) Americans. I have heard this racial and cultural unity stuff before, from my Afro-Latino relatives, but when I look at the facts and press them for a more honest opinion; the usual denials about racial discrimination and the romanticizing about their happy all inclusive societies, comes to an end.

This idea that Brazilians have this non-bias racial culture is at best, UNTRUE. I don’t have to get into a long dissertation on this subject, for the information and research about racism in Brazil is overwhelming. Matters of fact, Afro-Brazilian writers and scholars have a good grip on the subject of racial dilemmas in Brazil and have written about it, extensively. Outside of the Africans born in North America, the people of African descendant in Brasil are some the most politically, culturally, and racially aware Africans in the so-called New World/Western Hemisphere.

Read – BRAZIL MIXTURE OR MASSACRE? Essays in the Genocide of a Black People by Abdias do Nascimento, translated Elisa Larkin Nascimento, 2nd edition, 1989, First Majority Press

Answer to thread question – Smokey Robinson, is whatever he think he is.


“SO THINK A MAN, SO IS HE”.

ASHE,

Sun Ship

Hello Everyone!

I'm new to this but just wanted a chance to express a thought and/or opinion.

I liked Smokey's poem on DPJ because it allowed me to see another side to our presence - not only here but in the world.

It is true that we ALL have a connection to Africa. However, how comfortable would many of us feel or be made to feel? The things we take for granted here (too numerous to mention) may not be present in Africa. Also, we are connected historically. Presently, precious few Black Americans feel connected to Africa. I've made a conscious decison to stay in tuned with what is going on, but I don't know that the masses have.

We talk Africa but we don't speak African. We don't know anything about the language, aside from the few that have been imported into our daily lexicon.

Let's get busy right here in Amerikkka! African-American? Sheeit, I'm just plain 'ol Black!

One!

Hi djoutlaw! Welcome to our forums and thank you for expressing your opinion. As you move around the various forums, let me offer a friendly word of caution on the use of profanity. We try as much as possible to refrain from using it here. Thank you in advance for your cooperation!

What you say about precious few Black Americans feeling connected to Africa is true. No, we don't speak African because there are so many dialects on the continent so there's no way that we can speak them all unless someone truly studied and made it a personal goal to achieve.

I wonder why some of us question whether African Americans would feel comfortable or be made to feel comfortable living in Africa? Sure many of us take much for granted here, but how many of us can honestly say that we feel or are made to feel comfortable living right where we are?

Why are some of us so frightened to find out what it would be like to live in Africa? What are we so afraid of? What do we think we will encounter or miss if we were to move there? Have we fallen hook line and sinker for the negative spin that America has fed us about our original homeland?

Are we afraid of the insects, the terrain, being exposed to AIDS, crime, drugs, pumping water from a well, outside toilets and living in huts? What's to be afraid of there that we aren't exposed to here and worse? Look around you and tell me what do you see? Do you realize that there are major metropolitan cities in Africa that are just as progressive and in some instances, much more modern than some cities here in America?

Are we afraid of letting go of the myths about Africa and discovering the truth? Are we so elitist in our thinking after being exposed to European oppression for so long that we see ourselves to be better than our native brethren? Are we so arrogant that we're afraid to unlearn what we've been programmed to learn and to open our minds to receive the gift of true knowledge from our ancestors?

We listen to people tell us that some native Africans don't want to associate with African Americans and we immediately get an attitude. Have you ever wondered why that might be that they feel that way? Could it be because they hear some of us say that we don't connect to Africa and wouldn't want any parts of her? Look at how you identify...you're just Black...not even AFRICAN American.

You suggest that we 'get busy right here in Amerikkka!" There's a lot of truth in the way that you spell that. So think about it. Knowing what you know about the HIS-story of our experience here, what do you suggest we start doing that hasn't been tried already?

Peace!

Peace, djoutlaw

We might have a job to perform while we are here, but it should be alternative based and preparatory, in nature, without solidifying and/or assimilating to anything, as it applies to this temporary place in our journey.

REGARDLESS OF HOW IT FEELS,
WE ARE STILL IN EXILE!!!

Remember, nothing last forever, but Africans.

PEACE

_________________________________


Sister NNQueen :bowdown:,

Powerful, response to the post of djoutlaw!!

You are on point again, like a stinging bee and a sharpened dagger!!

"May the Sun shine upon the crown of Sistah NNQueen :bowdown: , one of New Africa’s Black spiritual professors of truth! Let her tongue be like a sword from Heaven. Her mind, like treasures revealed in the chambers of Aset. May she dine with gods and heavenly beings, on the celestial boat of Ra. And let every word from her mouth and sweetened lips; be swift and subtle like an avenging serpent, protecting her brood.”

I respect you Sistah! :bowdown:

Peace and Love,

Ashe!

Sun Ship

P.S. – sometime questions are more powerful than answers, to the uninformed.

Well Said NN...Too many of us in America overlook the possibilities that exist in Africa and other places throughout the Diaspora. Africa does possess many modern and developed cities as you stated (Brother PanthaXX also created a thread displaying Africa's beautiful cities). However even the undeveloped areas of Africa can be developed with our assistance. Instead of working for American companies for $25-30 an hour, African American engineers can go over to Africa and form their own companies. We can build schools, roads, hospitals, plumbing, etc. A place is what you make it. To ignore Africa is to ignore opportunity!

Panafrica, I really agree. If Diasporian-Africans repratriat. Do you know how much human strength we would bring with us? I think it's more sensible to go back home and re-establish ourselves.

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but I wanted to ask why no one seems to be bothered by the fact that it is very true (and sad) I might add that our race has changed names entirely too many times! Asians have always been Asians, Chinese always been Chinese, Caucasian always been Caucasian, etc. And why oh why do we continue to allow this to happen?:o

Hello theiiz and welcome!! I'm not sure I understand your question. What seems to be the concern that you have and by "we" I assume you mean African Americans? Help me to understand your point.

Peace!

I DIDN'T CARE TOO MUCH FOR SMOKEY'S POEM. MOREOVER, THOSE WHO MAKE FUTILE ATTEMPTS TO DISCONNECT AFRICAN-AMERICANS FROM AFRICA ARE SIMPLY MISGUIDED. MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS SMOKEY MUST HAVE BEEN TALKING TO HNIC WARD CONNERLY. BUT THEN I REALIZED SMOKEY HAS HIS OWN ISSUES.

ANYWAY, THE FACT REMAINS BLACKS IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE ARE STILL GENETICALLY CONNECTED TO THEIR RELATIVES IN AFRICA...WHICH MAKES US AFRICAN-AMERICANS. WE ARE DECENDANTS OF AFRICANS. PERIOD. I KNOW THIS PAINS THOSE WHO ARE SO FAR ASSIMILATED AND WHITEWASHED TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE, BUT DENYING THE TRUTH WILL NOT ERASE THE FACTS.

THE LAME EXCUSE "BLACKS IN AMERICA DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AFRICA" OR "WE DON'T SPEAK ANY AFRICAN LANGUAGES" IS BASELESS. TRUE, MANY BLACKS HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CONCEPT OF AFRICAN CULTURES, LANGUAGES AND RELIGIONS...BUT COMMON SENSE WOULD SUGGEST REASON BEING IS DUE TO THE FACT WE WERE SEVERED PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY FROM ANYTHING AFRICAN WHEN WE WERE BROUGHT TO THE NEW WORLD IN BONDAGE. IF WE WERE ABLE TO RETAIN OUR CULTURES, LANGUAGES ETC., WE WOULD NOT BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION TODAY. JUST BECAUSE WE WERE FORCED TO LOSE OUR IDENTITY DOESN'T MAKE US NON-AFRICAN.

WHEN A CHILD IS ADOPTED IS HE/SHE LESS GENETICALLY CONNECTED TO THEIR BIOLOGICAL PARENTS? OF COURSE NOT. SO FOR THE LIFE OF ME I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE JESTURE OF SMOKEY'S POEM AND THOSE LIKE HIM WHO CHOOSE TO ENGAGE IN SEMANTICS.

Africa is in our Blood!!! Well said Phenominal Flow

Welcome, welcome, welcome Phenomenal Flow!!! That was a phenomenal response and it rings loud and clear of what I believe is true. Thank you!!!

Peace!

smokey was exactly on the mark with his poem. there is no greater nation in the world than america. granted america is not perfect, but she is much closer than anything else out there. many of us have been duped into thinking that we are not entitiled to all of the rights and responsibilities that come with being an american.

Hotep

Right on with your poem...beautiful!!

Originally posted by pocotouro
smokey was exactly on the mark with his poem. there is no greater nation in the world than america. granted america is not perfect, but she is much closer than anything else out there. many of us have been duped into thinking that we are not entitiled to all of the rights and responsibilities that come with being an american.

Hi pocotouro. I find your post very interesting and it has raised my curiousity. From your perspective, can you expound a bit on the elements that you think makes America the greatest nation in the world? What do you view as America's strengths and weaknesses since you admit that it isn't perfect but the closest thing to it.

Also, what makes you think that many of us have been 'duped' into thinking that we are not entitled to all of the rights and responsibilities that come with being an American? Specifically, what rights and responsibilities do you perceive that we have that many of us don't think we have?

Finally, what was it specifically that you agreed with about Smokey's poem? Was it any particular point or comment?

Peace.

NNQueen,
To first answer your "by we" yes I am speaking of African American individuals such as myself. What I am asking is - doesn't it seem quite strange that our race (African Americans, Blacks, Coloreds etc...) are the only race that society seems to have no problem changing what we are called. As I said earlier, Asians have always been Asians, Chinese have always been Chinese, so why oh why is it that we (African Americans) have no problem having society (be it us or others) changing what we are called in this wonderful land we call America.

theiiz...going by your example, if we were to follow suit with the Asians, Chinese...etc....then we would identify as AFRICANS and nothing more because Africa is our place of origin and America became our place of destination for reasons I'm sure I don't need to explain to you since you claim to be African American. As an African American, if you understand anything about the institution of racism in America, I would think you would have a better understanding of this discussion and have no need to question what our struggle is about which includes what we are called.

Wait.....this WONDERFUL LAND WE CALL AMERICA....???

Mr. Robinson is Smokey in the mind I see.

sorry i havn't responded sooner.

nnqueen: you ask what makes America great? i say opportunity, diversity, education, technology, democracy, free trade, capitalism, freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of expression.

you ask how have we been duped?
America does continue to struggle with racial relations. However, this will always exist to some extent in a competetive society. Those who can not, or simply will not, compete, often use race as a scapegoat. I also believe that America's social policy has hoodwinked many of our brothers and sisters into a state of oppression. Instead of looking out for ourselves we have become more dependent on masta, expecting him to make things right for us. do you not see the cold irony in this? In my eyes welfare and quotas etc are tools that liberal minded racists use to subordinate minorities. i would much rather be stabed in the heart, than the back.

Furthermore, some of us have bought into the rationale that we should "go back to africa". this is little more than the man's attempt to deny us who we are. irrespective of how we came to this country, we are americans. all americans crossed the water at some time or another. now that the man has used us up he wants us to "get out". i say no way. who am i you ask. i am a black american. what am i? i am an african descendant.

As far as smokey, i agreed heavily with his poem. my interpretation was that we are americans. born and raised. we have assimilated the religion the culture the god. we have lived america. we have experienced america. in denying this to ourselves we are denying who we are. africa is foreign to us. we are decendants of africans. we are american.

panthaxx says "i am a victim of amerikka" words are powerful. if we chose to see ourselves as victims then that is all we are. i feel i am the descendent of conquerers, victors, brave and noble warriors.

if you "ain't no american" then what are you? why do you deny america? surely you don't believe that africa is without social ills? countless africans have died in the multitude of civil wars which have existed with in that continent. oppression, genocide and miseducation do these things not exist with in africa, and to a greater extent than in america?

is your mother the lady that gave you birth, or the woman who fed you, clothed you, gave you shelter from the storm, nurtured you and held you when you were afraid?

He's been banned so is it too late to deal with his comments since he won't have the opportunity to respond? Hmmmm....but anyway I have several questions of him that I may never know the answer to...

On the surface, what pocotouro wrote may seem plausible to some here. If I had a 'house slave' mentality, I might even agree. It's unfortunate that he won't have the opportunity to see why I think he is, in fact, the one that has been duped. Why he even believes that we are foot shuffling lazy people. But it appears that he is the one who has been desensitized to his own identity to the degree that he fervently rejects his ancestors and who he really is.

Pocotouro might go far in American society. He sounds like the one being described when white racists argue that they know somebody who's Black. He's probably been told time and time again how different he is and that's why they like him. I wonder what he thinks assimilation means.

He mentions advantages that we have in America that he assumes are greater than what we could possibly have living in Africa. How sad. He looks at internal wars among African people as though there is no possible logical reason to explain their struggle and their fight. Jews and Palestinians have been fighting for centuries. Catholics and Prostestants have been fighting for centuries, but when Africans fight, somehow their causes are less important or understandable? He probably thinks they're just a bunch of heathens that fight for no reason at all.

Does pocotouro believe that because African Americans aren't fighting the same type of war in America that we are somehow more civilized than our brethren on the continent?

For every advantage that he named, there's also a disadvantage attached. Pocotouro has been duped because he believes there is such a concept as 'equal opportunity' and a 'level playing field' for Blacks in America.

He's probably telling his white masters about these evil black radical websites called Destee.com and the TalkingDrum.com as we speak. No let me stop, I'm letting my prejudice show........LOL!

Smokey is really gone! I guess all the money he has made over the years can't buy Political Education. And it most definately didn't buy a ticket to the Mother Land!

I saw this episode of Def Poetry Jam at a friends house (I don't believe in paying for Television) and I found myself storming out of their house! I was dissappointed in Smokeys remarks but, unfortunately, many of my people feel this same way about Africa!

We are African period!!!! We have been stolen from our land and forced to live in various places all over the globe! The many names we've received over the years GIVEN to us! We never chose Colored, Negro, or Black! Negro is nothing but the Spanish version of Black anyway, they are one in the same!

And we aren't African American either:

If we are African American, what America are we referring too? There is North America, Central America, and South America! So, does that make us North African-American? According to Smokey and others, that wouldn't be accurate either. Since we are "mixed" with other ethnicities,(because of rapes and other situations) we would have to call ourselves: African European North American Native American!!!!

Now doesn't that sound crazy? We live the lives of oppressed African people! There are a small minority of Entertainers who have some wealth but, they still sufffer from the same indignities as any other African on this planet! We live in a Capitalistic society with limited options. Our struggle is a common one and by saying that we aren't African, we dismiss the struggle of our ancestors and spit in their faces! We are connected by land....therefore we are not American! How can we proclaim someones land that was never ours in the first place? Who does that sound like?

And, on the issue of where our struggle takes place....
Africa is our homeland and where we need to base our struggle. I saw some posters who disagreed with this but, it is the truth! We have to begin with the roots of a tree and not the leaves! If the tree is sick, spray painting the leaves will not cure the entire tree!!! North America (or anywhere else where we now reside, other than Africa) is not our home!!!! We may live here and have a Citizen ship, but, Africa is Home.

What we call ourselves....
Now that I have made it clear that calling ourselves African-American is incorrect, you may now wonder, what do we call ourselves? We are African Period. I am an African who lives in the U.S.A. A person in Brazil is an African in Brazil, a person in Jamaica is an African in Jamaica, etc.

If anyone doesn't understand this ideology, here is a site that may prove useful:

http://www.umsl.edu/~libweb/blackstudies/aaprp1.htm

Forward to a United Africa!!!!

I don't know if anyone will get to this page, b/c it is so far down the ladder, but I do hope that my intended audience read it.

My interpretation of Smokey Robinson's poem:

I don't believe he is trying to disown Africa or make it seem as if we are completely disconnected from that continent, but I do believe that he's tryng to make it understood that it's okay for African-Americans to embrace their culture and not be ashamed to call it their own. I think, however, that people are missing the greater point of Smokey's poem which is the labeling system that America has built to identify a person's class and social standings. If many of you didn't not know this before, race is an invented thing. It came about during the end of slavery. Hmmm, I wonder why? Well the answer folks, is that THEY (whoever "they" might be inn your mind) had to find another way to keep the balance of class structure; b/c before, as we all know, there were slaves-- who were at the very bottom of social hierarchy--and then there were the white folks, and then there were the rich white folks. That is only one of the many long and drawn out reasons. People also don't know that America is the only country, out of all the countries in the world, that place such an importance (for reasons that I mentioned before) on this thing they invented called RACE.

I personally am from a country in South America that is considered a part of the West Indian nation called Guyana. When I came here at the tender age of four (I'm 18 now) I tried to blend in with all the kids here. I lost my accent and upbraided my parents for their accents, or for the way they worded certain things. Now that I'm older and infinitely wiser, I love my West Indian culture. I've always loved the food--I like certain American foods too-- and the music, but now I'm truly learning to appreciate the people and their history. My point is, the "black" man's situation is unique to anyone else's. Any other "race" in the world, if they relocated, has done so mostly b/c of their own free will. We, on the other hand, were forced to go where the slave masters settled us. Thusly, we are the only one's who had to make their own culture after everyone else in the world already had theirs. Leading into my point where I absolutely agree with the Brazilian girl who identifies herself as Brazilian and not Afro-Brazilian. I identify myself first as a Guyanese and second as a "black" female. When I have to fill out forms that have only African-American as a choice for what THEY want to call us brown skin people, I--in annoyance--check "other" and then fill in, most of the times "black". Or when I'm really irate about this whole race labeling thing, I write in South American Guyanese for I am neither African nor am I American.

In conclusion to what I'm trying to say, the mere fact that we're here arguing about whether we should be labeled African-American, black, etc., is just a result of what we are missing from the bigger picture. The bigger picture is that there is dissention in the ranks. There is confusion in self identity. There is no unity. So you see ladies and gentleman, divide and conquer (ex: what race do YOU belong to--which by the way is totally an irrelevant question but is being asked to prove my point) is a much better and less gruesome system than slavery. It's just as, if not more, effective than the aforementioned. The misconseption of this thing called race keeps us as blacks, or hispanis, or asians, in our places. This notion that I speak of is clearly exemplified by the fact that although I see myself as a Guyanese person, America identifies me as a black woman.

Greetings Sister Kallie and welcome to our community. :wave:

I assure you that no matter at what point someone enters a discussion, it is read by many of us here. I think your contribution to this thread is eloquent, indeed, and I'm pleased that you joined us.

Sister Kallie--please don't take what I'm about to write the wrong way. It's no criticism of you personally but when I read your commentary, it just raised some issues for me that I want to share.

You know, it's become interesting to me when some Black people from different countries try to explain to African Americans what racism is and how it affects us. The fact that we're told that we don't understand it; are missing the bigger picture; and need to embrace our own culture (as if we're not trying to) rubs me a little the wrong way.

A Brother like Smokey who chooses to see things differently than many of us here because he loves being just an "American", makes some people think that the rest of us who choose not to wave the American flag and kiss it's dirt, are confused and misguided. :uhoh:

No, I don't think we're confused about the issue of "race" or where it came from and why it got birthed. The fact that we continue to discuss it along with many issues that are relevant to us because of who we are and our catastrophic past is testimony and proof that we understand it very well, and more than many Black people from different countries might want to give us credit for.

When you've been the brunt of racism; when, because of you, a system call Jim Crow is put in place; when you have been beaten down, murdered, raped, dehumanized and plagiarized ALL your life--I don't think there's any confusion about the bigger picture for African Americans nor a lack of knowledge or understanding of it's root cause and most definitely not its affect of us.

Maybe Black people in other countries have a better time of living in those countries than African Americans do, so you see things differently than we do and that's fine . . . that's blessed...and I'm pleased that not every Black person on the planet has to put up with the kind of treatment that African Americans have and still do. But do you really think it's as simple or easy as "just embrace your own culture"?

If you don't identify with your "race" but your country, that's beautiful. Maybe it should be that way for everyone, but it's not that way for most African American's because we're seldom made to feel a part of the American fabric of this nation and people need to be reminded. We're not even treated like guests who were invited here because we weren't "invited" . Not a day goes by where a Black person living in America isn't confronted with images of racial divide and oppression. We're a constant and everyday reminder to the white "elite" of a very ugly and brutal past that keeps race an issue for everyone in this country. It's white people in the U.S. that want to live in denial, not us.

Not about race? I don't care how the word got started, all I know is that it's here and we know how it's used to continue to divide and conquer us. It's not as simple as just calling yourself an "American". Not for African Americans because many of us fiend for that reconnection to the culture of our ancestors on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean. Our cultural roots . . . our identity did not originate on some southern plantation shucking corn, picking cotton and birthing white men's babies and suckling the babies of their white wives. The memory of our ancestors deserve better and dadgumit some of us respect that and are bound and determined to live it.

The Middle Passage, the lynchings, the unmarked graves of our ancestors, the brutal and senseless murders -- this is the holocaust for Africans brought to the Americas and we have to argue for reparations. It's upsetting to me that we are expected to just forget about it and move on, but no one ever says that to a Jew who experienced the pain of their holocaust.

If Smokey wants to be just an American, let him. Let him keep singing about the tracks of his tears based on some romantic folly instead of what he felt like the first time someone called him the "N" word . . . I like Smokey. In fact, I grew up listening to Smokey and his Motown sound. But Smokey's sentiments may be somewhat biased by the way he looks too. Have you ever seen Smokey?

Peace . . . glad you're with us and hope you continue to post!
Queenie :spinstar:

Hi djoutlaw! Welcome to our forums and thank you for expressing your opinion. As you move around the various forums, let me offer a friendly word of caution on the use of profanity. We try as much as possible to refrain from using it here. Thank you in advance for your cooperation!

What you say about precious few Black Americans feeling connected to Africa is true. No, we don't speak African because there are so many dialects on the continent so there's no way that we can speak them all unless someone truly studied and made it a personal goal to achieve.

I wonder why some of us question whether African Americans would feel comfortable or be made to feel comfortable living in Africa? Sure many of us take much for granted here, but how many of us can honestly say that we feel or are made to feel comfortable living right where we are?

Why are some of us so frightened to find out what it would be like to live in Africa? What are we so afraid of? What do we think we will encounter or miss if we were to move there? Have we fallen hook line and sinker for the negative spin that America has fed us about our original homeland?

Are we afraid of the insects, the terrain, being exposed to AIDS, crime, drugs, pumping water from a well, outside toilets and living in huts? What's to be afraid of there that we aren't exposed to here and worse? Look around you and tell me what do you see? Do you realize that there are major metropolitan cities in Africa that are just as progressive and in some instances, much more modern than some cities here in America?

Are we afraid of letting go of the myths about Africa and discovering the truth? Are we so elitist in our thinking after being exposed to European oppression for so long that we see ourselves to be better than our native brethren? Are we so arrogant that we're afraid to unlearn what we've been programmed to learn and to open our minds to receive the gift of true knowledge from our ancestors?

We listen to people tell us that some native Africans don't want to associate with African Americans and we immediately get an attitude. Have you ever wondered why that might be that they feel that way? Could it be because they hear some of us say that we don't connect to Africa and wouldn't want any parts of her? Look at how you identify...you're just Black...not even AFRICAN American.

You suggest that we 'get busy right here in Amerikkka!" There's a lot of truth in the way that you spell that. So think about it. Knowing what you know about the HIS-story of our experience here, what do you suggest we start doing that hasn't been tried already?

Peace!


I'm happy to come back to this subject. YOu are so right!

I told someone I was going to Benin with friends who have lived there for years. There a community of people from Brazil who moved back to Benin. Africans from the diaspora live there, teach there, learn there. My friends bought land there and intend to build a home. My other friends built a home in Gambia and goes there every chance she can.

The response I got from my friends were. The practice voodoo there. Aren't you afraid? I am more afraid of living on the stress of this racist country then I will ever be afraid there.

My response also is: And what is practiced here in amerikkka. We are literally living with satan and his children. How about racial profiling, unfair laws, rampant discrimination, lies, murder..... How dare we think that this is civilization we live under and we think we are better than our brothers and sisters in Afraka.

If one does not study the traditional spiritual systems of Afraka then learn about them first. Ignorance isn't attractive!

Marcus, Elijah, Malcolm, Kwame, Dubois, and many others wanted us to come to the motherland and form connections and not as missionaries.

Some of us will go to Europe before we step foot on our motherland.

For those of you who are afraid to go, talk to people who have been. Read about peaceful Nations like, Ghana, Senegal, Benin, Gambia, Guinea, Togo, parts of Nigeria. Go with people who have already been. There are tons of tour groups in every major city in the u.s.

Lastly put yourself and God and the ancestors hands and take a leap of faith!

Hi, NNQueen:

Somkey Robinson, performed the poem on Russell Simmions' Deaf Poetry Jam on cable TV. If you watch the re-runs, they show now and then, you may catch it. Its been a while since I saw it and don't recall it exactly. But I think he was referring to being "socialized" black/African/American. And he was trying to express an honesty or fact that, in terms of culture and socialization, he just was not African. I don't think he was denying his African roots, just that he was cultured and socialized an African-American. But like I said its vague. But the reaction of the audience was positive; so you know it could not have been bad, what he said. The fact that he is high yellow had nothing to do with the content of the poem; anyone darker than him could have performed the poem and hold the same views expressed in the poem.

Yes, pdiane, I'm glad we're coming back to this thread because a lot of similar discussions have taken place in other threads since this was first posted. "Can you go home again?" and "Repatriation on your mind?" are two such threads that raise serious questions about how some African Americans think and feel about Africa and living there. Questions are raised for readers to determine whether impressions among our members are of a romantic and idealistic nature or based on reality and experience.

Living in America are a large number of Black people who are descendents of Africans brought here as slaves. Most of these descendents have never set foot on African soil and are ignorant of the varied cultures that exist there. Some African descendents accept the classification "African" American because they can't deny their ancestral heritage because of what they look like. However, that may be where their sense of connection begins and ends. To these, their home is Amerika and they have no desire to call or make Africa their 'home'. Others, even some who have caucasoid features, are proud to be called African American even though they have been socialized in the American culture. Some may have a desire to return to Africa because they view her as their rightful home, and some want to remain in Amerika to demand justice, power and control of their destiny. Amerika is where they are comfortable because it's familiar to them.

As I think back to when I started this thread and all the discussion that has taken place over the past few months, I guess I've learned that there is so much diversity among African Americans and that's what makes us so interesting. The questions this raises are whether our differences and diverse ways of thinking will continue to divide us more or can we ever become unified (if that's what we want) as a people and change our present course of harmful events?

What is it exactly that divides us and what can there be between us to bring us together?

Queenie :spinstar:

Yes, pdiane, I'm glad we're coming back to this thread because a lot of similar discussions have taken place in other threads since this was first posted. "Can you go home again?" and "Repatriation on your mind?" are two such threads that raise serious questions about how some African Americans think and feel about Africa and living there. Questions are raised for readers to determine whether impressions among our members are of a romantic and idealistic nature or based on reality and experience.

Living in America are a large number of Black people who are descendents of Africans brought here as slaves. Most of these descendents have never set foot on African soil and are ignorant of the varied cultures that exist there. Some African descendents accept the classification "African" American because they can't deny their ancestral heritage because of what they look like. However, that may be where their sense of connection begins and ends. To these, their home is Amerika and they have no desire to call or make Africa their 'home'. Others, even some who have caucasoid features, are proud to be called African American even though they have been socialized in the American culture. Some may have a desire to return to Africa because they view her as their rightful home, and some want to remain in Amerika to demand justice, power and control of their destiny. Amerika is where they are comfortable because it's familiar to them.

As I think back to when I started this thread and all the discussion that has taken place over the past few months, I guess I've learned that there is so much diversity among African Americans and that's what makes us so interesting. The questions this raises are whether our differences and diverse ways of thinking will continue to divide us more or can we ever become unified (if that's what we want) as a people and change our present course of harmful events?

What is it exactly that divides us and what can there be between us to bring us together?

Queenie :spinstar:

My dear sister you ask a very strong and thought provoking question. What divides we? We should all read the letter Willie Lynch wrote to the so-called masters of Enslaved Afrakans. He mapped out a plan that would divide us and have us hating ourselves and one another for hundreds of years and guess what, he was right.

What will can bring us together? Well the answer to that is the future of our children. Where we do want our children to be? Can we continue to be self-
fish and self-hating, can we continue to allow white women and men and white gay womem and me raise our children in these school systems, can we continue to allow ministers in our churches (and mosques) be patriachal controlling father, son, holy ghosts pimps, can we continue to allow a system that we know doesn't like us doesn't want us here to contol our very minds?

I am optimistic because I am in a circle of Black/Afrakan people who are waking up. Who have bucked the system and paving the way for our people. Black people who have bought land in Afraka. Black people who know who they are and are building institutions for their people. Black people who are not afraid and standing on the shoulders of our Great Ancestors.

I am pessimistic about us all being on the same page. Some folks just love white folks and the things they do. They simply can't let go of their masters. So God bless them. Let us conscious folks keep paving the way for our children and let the ones who absolutely refuse to let go stay with their masters.

We simply can't save the world.

Is Adam Clayton Powell Jr. african? Ofcourse he is :teach:

I peeped into this thread because I saw Smokey Robinson's name attached. I was not thinking it would be as effusively dynamic, and filled with the eclectisism of Black thought and perspective as it turned out... Sista Queenie, Sasha, Pdiane, Destee, and Swt, ladies your charm and intellectual power oozes through your posts in a way that does us all proud - trust...

Firstly, I agree on many fronts with all of you, particularly with what Sasha had to say on this subject... For years, all I did was read Dr. Ben, Chiehk Anta Diop, and Basil Davidson's works on Africa. I completely neglected OUR history here in the United States, because, frankly, I unconsciously, did not respect that history. I was subliminally taught to hate that history of slavery, suffering, and death by a White Supremacist school system that wants us all to forget our history, for bad or for worse, because that history reflects quite negatively on them...

Ironically, in the past few years, I've begun to read that history with a passion and joy I could never read Dr. Ben's books with, because that history is far more relevant to me... It hits home with me, because Malcolm is me, Elijah Muhammad is me, Marcus Garvey is me, and all of our collective tribulation and triumph in this hemisphere is me... In short, my beautiful sista pdiane, I feel as a member of the same "tribe"/ethnic group as the afore-mentioned persons, just as an Igbo feels differentiated from a Yoruba, by our collective experiences and culture. Just as the Igbo understands that he is an African, and the Yoruba understands that he is an African, the two also understand that they are of different cultures, and experiences... All of these cultures have their own unique truths to present to the world, and none wants those truths blotted out by someone elses truths, and experiences... That is why we, as African Americans oft encounter problems with African Latinos, because they have their own set of truths and experiences so different from our own...

Sister pdiane, you make some incredibly salient points, and your analysis of Amerikkka mirrors my own, believe that(smile!) But I believe that as we look upon our motherland as the romantic place of aeons ago, we can tend to overlook our triumphant and transcendent struggle here... We must check ourselves on that, and understand some of the realities of present-day Africa, where African children are recruited into wars, raped as a "cure" for Aids, and Johannesburg now represents one of the crime capitals of the world... All that is Africa is not beautiful and wonderful and nice, and Shaka Zulu and Akenaton and Nefertitti no longer live there anymore... True, we know the underlying reasons for the under-development of Africa, the crime, the poverty, the ignorance, and we can play a role as Africans in America in changing all that, but we have our issues as well...

Sick folk cannot be running to the aid of other sick folk, because neither has the immunity to withstand the sicknesses of the other. We here must make ourselves well, before we can be of service to Africa - or, regrettably, as Smokey seemed to indicate in his poem, we will just be takin' up space. Africa needs our money, and they will roll out the red carpet for African Americans who're bringing them that, but they don't have any use for those of us who are not assets to their economies... That is the hard reality... I have zero illusions about Continental Africans... Some like African Americans for who we are, and some despise us. We can flip that too, and say the same of ourselves as regards them(smile!) As conscious African Americans, sure, we will encounter more of the positive aspects of the Continental African personality, but my own experience is that I've had to fight through their stereotypes of African Americans before we could have that entente/entre...

Doesn't matter, I still love my people, and all our crazy, wacky, superstitious, skin-bleaching, scarifying foolishness, because they are me, and I am them... But **** if I will relinquish my history in this country, relinquish my Blues, my Jazz, My R&B, my slang, and my struggle to go back to the continent to struggle there... That would be most disrespectful to my ancestors, and ultimately, to my children... Brother Mr. Curtis Mayfield said This is My Country, not because it was owned by him or us, but because we've put in too much freakin' work to let this cracker have it all to himself... As Smokey mentioned, aint nobody actually leavin' this mug, as bad as it is on many fronts... pdiane, though I am in disagreement with you about that aspect of your postings, I fully agree with you on the traditions, the song, the dance, the drum, and I am for the perpetuation of that at all costs, including a mass exodus(smile!) But we have to give recognition to both aspects of ourselves. I, now, understand that what we Africans in this hemisphere have accomplished is nothing short of miraculous, and should not be discarded because the greater glory of Ancient Khemet outshines us in it's brilliance. I think the Khemtians would actually be proud of what we have overcome to be where we are. They'd say y'all still got work to do, but they'd say that with a smile, as a reminder to remember our struggle, and not to give up on it.

One last thing, Sister pdiane, can we all refrain from the references to skin tones and complexions as measures of how we feel, and what we think about our Africaness?(smile!) Can we agree to stop talking about something that has no scientific or biological basis(race/blood)for our continued entertainment of it as a subject? It's all been proven a White Supremacist political construct, so can we develop a new vocab on this??? Smokey's complexion has nothing to do with whether he is proud or not... If we allow ourselves to believe that, then Malcolm, Elijah, and certainly Adam Clayton Powell, Jr., were all, in reality, just a bunch of self-hating Black men, and nothing could be further from the truth... You know I could go on down the line through every light-complexioned African, and say the same thing, but I wont... Clarence Thomas is very Dark, but does that mean this brother loves me and you, or himself???(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Brother Isiah, thank you for your analysis of what I wrote on this subject. I agree to disagree with you on a number of things you said about my posts.


"But **** if I will relinquish my history in this country, relinquish my Blues, my Jazz, My R&B, my slang, and my struggle to go back to the continent to struggle there... "

Question: in the above statement that you made, are you suggesting that I am reliquishing my history in amerikkka by going to Afraka and setting up infrastructure for our children to thrive in?

You mention Marcus, Elijah, and Malcolm who were our great heroes in amerikkka, but did they not speak about going to Afraka to set up infrastructure there for our people of the diaspora and Afrakans on the continent? Did not Marcus say "Afraka for Afrakans". Did not Elijah show on the "Muhammad Speaks" a Black man from Afraka reaching to a Black Man from amerikkka and holding hands?

You infer in my posts that I do not recognize the accomplishments of our people here in amerikkka and that i am idealistic about Afraka. I beg to differ with you my brother. I am a product of the Afrakan experience in amerikkka. I am a community activist, so-called educated, I have college graduate children and I love Black people. I am among the many.

However, I am among the few who see Afraka as another way to our salvation.

Knowing our glorious history will not put food on our table unless we use it as litmus test for our survival.

I went to see Minister Farrakhan the other day here in Boston. He reiterated what Elijah, Queen Mother Moore, Marcus and Malcolm advocated and that is that we must seperate from white folks. We all may not physically be able to do this on a grand scale, but we definitely can do it mentally.

He told us that he is buying a printing press and the paper to go with it and he just put almost $1,000,000 dollars on more farmland in Georgia so that he can feed our people.

He also spoke about forming coalitions with the Native peoples of amerikkka. He talked about his wife being of Native ancestry and that Elijah Muhammad always said that the Native amerikkkans where original people of the earth.

Now the Nation of Islam owns acres of land in Ghana as well in which they are working on a hospital, housing, farms and other structures. This will help all Afrakans.

I have family members many who have been to Ghana, one that is moving there next week.

I am telling you all this brother Isaiah because we have to think out of the box. All of Afraka is not at war and we as Afrakans of the diaspora who have resources must be diverse in how we can best help our people here and abroad. We can't put all our eggs in one basket.

Some should stay here and help people like Minister Farrakhan and anyone who has a "do for self" programs. Some of us should do the same in Afraka, South Amerikkka and the Carribean.

I speak of our children because we must look to their future.

The europeans who conquered the world knew they that many of them wouldto die when they came to Afraka and the amerikkkas, but they kept their eyes on the prize. They sacraficed for the generations that were going to come after them. They did not enjoy the fruits of their evilness but their children are now.

We as a people don't do that. We live for today. How best can we save our children if we they don't have anywhere to go? If we don' set up schools and businesses for them. Where are they going to go to, to Walmart for a job? We have done a total disservice to our people by trying to integrate with these people. Hind sight is 20 20, but let's learn from our mistakes.

We must be visionaries. Do you think there is a future for our children, for our men in prison, for our boys in special ed here under a government that hates us? How many of them know about Afrakan history in amerikkka or on the continent. Not many.

You mentioned our inventions of jazz, R&B, rock n roll, but we don't own our inventions. We don't profit from them. Our masters are owned by white runned companies. My neice is a contract entertainment lawyer. She can tell you some stories of all the royalties we never received from our inventions.

Claude Anderson "Black Labor White Wealth" clearly shows were we went wrong here in amerikkka and his solutions are exactly what i am talking about. Forming coaltions with the diaspora.

I am not going to let Bill Cosby, Smokey, or anyone else off the hook when they erroneously speak about our people and their experiences here in amerikkka and abroad.

Now on the lightskin, bi-racial issue: Willie Lynch lives!
"can we all refrain from the references to skin tones and complexions as measures of how we feel, and what we think about our Africaness?(smile!) Can we agree to stop talking about something that has no scientific or biological basis(race/blood)for our continued entertainment of it as a subject? It's all been proven a White Supremacist political construct, so can we develop a new vocab on this??? Smokey's complexion has nothing to do with whether he is proud or not." I say to you on this my.

We can absolutely not stop talking about this. We can't slip the "color" issue under the rug and make believe it does not exist no matter who defines it.

How do you know what is in Smokey's head, my brother?

His words resonate with self-hate to me, masked with the fact he is proud of our history here in amerikkka. Please!

Haile Gerima, Chancelor Williams, Dr. Ben showed us that many of us, not all, who are closer to white people, hate their black selves. Ask the cape verdeans who call themselves portuguese and the spanish speaking people of Afrakan descent who call themselves spanish.

Bi-racials were instrumental in the destruction of Black civilization and they are now being used by the media today to show that Black folks should be more like them. The subliminal messages are appauling and they hurt our children.

Some media outlets don't even use dark skin Black folks for their commercials etc.

Recently, Morgan State hired a public relations firm to advertise Morgan, they puposely only had light skinned Blacks on their catalogue. It was noticed and of course fixed. Brother, color matters how people operate in this society. It is a fact of life and no matter who defines it. How it is used needs to be exposed!

Brother, i would love to address other issues I have with your thought provoking analysis but I must go now. I am on may way to Afraka with my Afrakan dance teacher and several Afrakans from the diaspora.

i am looking foward to your response, I will reply to you when I return in August. Until then, may God and the ancestors bless you.

Have a safe and inspiring trip Sister pdiane! :wave:

See you when you return!

Peace,
Queenie :spinstar:

Sister pdiane, for some strange reason, I am unable to locate the last posts(including mine!)in this thread, so I will walk blindly through what I read of your post while I was at work...

Firstly, I don't believe in the concept of race... I dropped that idea some years ago when I learned of L.S.B. Leakey's findings in the Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania... Subsequent scientific projects, such as the Human G-Nome research has rendered African people further proof, and further victory, in our historical understanding and belief that it was our ancestors who peopled this planet, and that our ancestor's dna runs through the veins of every member of the human species... That would explain why I don't believe in stuff like "white blood", black blood", "Philipino blood", and so forth... All blood runnining through the veins of humanity is the blood of Africans if we are to believe the scientific research, which brother Isaiah DOES!(smile!)

Sister pdiane, at this point, it would be like an attorney who has already won his case returning to the bar to file briefs to retry his case... This is what we are doing if we continue to play the white man's game with this construct of race... I don't believe in racism, I believe, however, in the existence and practice of White Supremacy... So called racism, to let them tell it, is practiced by ALL people, but is White Supremacy practiced by ALL people???(smile!) The answer to that is not an emphatic no, as all folk under it's subliminal power are actually practicing it, including us Black folk... But, nevertheless, it is a powerful pointed finger at it's foremost practicioners, the White man, and as long as I have that power to put him on the defensive, I will not relinquish it by refrying, rehashing, and regurgitating his racist eschatologies...

This is why I have asked African people to stop the reactionary, Pavlov's Dog stuff, and let us develope a new vocabulary about this subject. Using that weak, one-size-fits-all terminology of race and racism, let's this man off the hook... Knee-jerk reactions to what I've said here, and in other spaces, tells me that folks just aint hearing me out, and listening to what I am saying... I am not a "multiracial activist" type, nor am I an emissary of White Liberals(whoever and whatever and wherever they are!)... I am one who came to some pretty logical conclusions juxtaposing the facts against the popular dialogue... I know the practice of White Supremacist violence is not matched ever in human history, but they will have you believe it is, by saying ALL people have practiced slavery, and genocide as they have...all people are guilty of lynching and arbitrary murder, violence, rape, and terrorism, and my point is PROVE to me that White Supremacy has another precedent... Put It On Paper!!!

Sister, my logic, without writting a long dissertation on this, is I refuse to tacitly "whitewash" our history, belittle and exacerbate our pain and suffering by bashing Smokey and countless millions of other Africans, including myself, who've been the victims of White Supremacy...

I mean, I agree with you that Smokey is misled, but so was El Hajj Malik el Shabazz, so that aint nothing to holler about... All of us, be we dark or light, have been the victims of a holocaust, and light-skinned African people have been no less the victims of that holocaust... To believe that is to believe in a great mythology... Why perpetuate that kind of divisive tribalism in such a great intellectual forum as this??? You mean you choose Clarence Thomas over Adam Clayton Powell because he is darker-skinned??? You chose Michael Jordan over Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, because Michael is darker skinned??? You choose Dianna Ross over Lena Horne because Dianna is darker skinned??? Okay, suit yourself, but I aint into that kind of skin tone analysis... I'm into analyzing the actions and deeds of Brothers and Sisters... Remember little high yella, Mahmood Abdul-Rauf, and his comments regarding the American flag as a symbol of death and destruction??? Wonder why big Black Shaquille O'Neal never stood up to defend his brother??? Possessed of such high quantities of melanin as he is, it would seem by the analysis of some, that he should possess equal amounts of principle...

Sister, I agree that Africa is OURS, and that we should do what we can to help our motherland, but I do believe that we've got work to do here FIRST thing - trust! For one thing, imagine leaving this white man in America with no one to keep an eye on his behind!!! Man, that would top the list of all of the insane things Africans have done in history... Nope!!! Aint with that! That would also entail placing full trust in African people on the continent to kick him outta there, and they aren't doing that... They have not attained that level of consciousness, and I speak from a certain level of experience on that tip... Here we are, been living under constant psychic assault in the lion's den for centuries, and got consciousness enough to not bleach our skin, but our brethren on the continent do not??? As Chuck D. would say, Can't Truss It...

So, while I enamored of the idea as you are, Sister pdiane, I am realistic about it... I love African people, and the one most powerful thing that distinguishes us from others, our culture... But I don't believe for a minute that Continental Africans want us back there in our present condition, and no, I don't think they see us as being quite African, to be honest with you... Knowing Africa's very tribal history, where African ethnic and religious groups clash and quarrel murderously with one another, I wouldn't want to go stepping in the middle of all of that without being highly prepared... I say affectionately, no ma, that thing is a lot deeper than you're having us believe, and we should agree to discuss this reasonably at this forum... When I find the rest of your post tomorrow, I will try to address it without being so long-winded(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

Wow (that means "yes" in Wolof), I'm back. Thank you Brother Isaiah for your response. As you have seen throughout Destee's forum I agree with mostly everything you say because you love Black people and you do your homework.

I must share with you my experience in Senegal. Senegal is beautiful. It is a 90% Muslim country, very peaceful, no liquor stores, not a lot of crime, everday people.

I went with my Senegalese dance teacher and her son. Her family was beautiful and loving. Not once did I hear of any ethnic issues because in Senegal. Islam and their traditional spiritual systems keep them strong and united. There were some problems in a Casamance, where I went and stayed for 3 days, by the way, but there has been peace there for a couple of years now.

Senegal is poor but spiritual. Family is extremely important. I stayed in Dakar and the village, both were wonderful.

All we did was hug and kiss one another. Afraka needs us brother and we need Afraka. I cannot speak for every country in Afraka, there are 55 but I could see myself in Senegal working in the schools, starting a telephone or cyber cafe business. Bringing our children there to learn the rich culture of our people would be a great as well. We had children from amerikkka with us and they did not want to come back.

I learned Wolof before I went to Senegal. I speak a little Wolof. They were were absolutely delighted. It was wonderful. "Dig" means hear and understand, "julee" means pray. Dadit means "no". We use the "d" sound for "th" words when we speak ebonics, I see why now.

We went to Goree Island, we cried, we hugged each other and it was so emotional. I could see the pain in our faces and the pain in their faces as well.

Afraka belongs to me Brother Isaiah, I don't care if some Afrakans don't want us there or do not think of us as Afrakans. There were times when the children in Casamance called me "toobob" meaning "white". but that is their ignorance, most of the people welcomed us home.

Do Afrakans want to come to amerikkka? Yes, some do but those that are here are dying to go home as well and I see why.

Amerikkka can't touch Afraka, this place is a diabolical mess. For those of us who choose to stay here wonderful. I think we need people like us on all fronts. It is good to know that we have choices and I am out of here when I retire in 2 years.

Peace.

Senegal is a beautiful place, and the Senegalese are a beautiful people both inside and outside (especially the women)! :nuts: Indeed my daughter's godmother is Senegalese. This is a very important description to make brother Pdiane, because it allows people to know that not all of Africa is corrupt & war ridden (which is all the media allows us to see). There are many places in Africa which feel like home.

Sista Pdiane, happy to hear of your return from the motherland, and glad you enjoyed your stay... I plan next year to visit the motherland, myself!(smile!)

You will get no argument from me about Africa needing Africans in Diaspora... Nor will I debate the issue with Continental Africans about who is and isn't African, as God gave them no special power to define who I am... Toubab, huh???(smile!) That kind of ignorance is further substantiation of your statement that the Continent NEEDS African Americans and African Caribbeans up in there with FEELIN' - know what I'm saying???(smile!)

It's all good, though... I would be dishonest if I said that incidents like that don't sting and hurt... I wouldn't be a man, wouldn't be human, if I didn't express my annoyance with it... Yes, they might've, as you said, been ignorant little children, but those children learned that out of the mouth of an equally ignorant adult, and that has to change if we are to make any inroads on the Continent... If I were to go there, and have to fight all of that ignorance, stupidity, and prejudice, then I wouldn't have much energy left to do much else(smile!)

Pdiane, I hope you and others will understand where I am coming from... As Africans in this part of the world, we have done ZERO to hurt Continental Africans, so to direct that stuff at us is just like intolerable - really... And the ignorance of not knowing who you're enemy is just strikes me as comical... If that man has been there on the Continent for 500 years, raping, robbing, and murdering, and yet your conscious image of the enemy is those who were deracinated and stolen from the continent, you may have problems so large as to be unsolvable...

Wait...let me just calm down...(smile!) Make no mistake about it, I will continue to do what I must to help change and alter that mindset... I really have no other choice in the matter, as my own life is at stake... But we must understand how such behaviour makes it all the more palpable why a Smokey Robinson would make some of his statements in that poem... It is why I refused to come down so hard on the brother... The ignorance is a two-way street, and it is no more excusable in those whom we would expect would have a greater sense of their Africaness... It makes me to wonder WHO is the real TOUBAB among us???(smile!) I just hope when I go, sistawoman, I aint gotta straight spank some of the brothers and sisters about that kinda stuff.(smile!) I've been known to do that, strange neighborhoods and all(smile!)

Sorry for the vent, my sista... I just gets like that sometimes... You know, all loud and expressive(smile!) Like I said, I am most pleased that you had a fine trip, and look forward to my own sometime next year - really!(smile!)

Peace!
Isaiah

First I’d like to thank all for their participation in this discussion and particularly the Queen for introducing it. I read all 73 responses before offering this.

As a poet and lover of the spoken word I must say that I enjoyed Smokie’s piece. (The Black American) It was very entertaining. Spoken word delivered passionately usually is.

However, there was a disturbing aspect to it that should be addressed and I’m not sure it was touched on here. And that is, how the piece was performed. There were nuances within his delivery that smacked of self-deprecation, WillieLynchism and cultural disconnectedness.

When he stated, “And, if you go to Africa in search of your race,
You’ll find out quick you’re not an African American,
You’re just a Black American in Africa takin’ up space.” It was delivered with disdain and disgust.

“Feelin’ a little insecure again about being called Black
And decided that African American sounded a little more exotic.
Well, I think you were being a little more neurotic,”

Does it imply that I’m neurotic because I identify with Afrika? This statement appears to be a cultural put down while reading it, yet the way he delivered it was as if the very thought of connecting to Africa was distasteful.

I think Smokie, like a great many others in this country have been lulled to sleep by their bank accounts. They’ve lost sight on the Cabrini Green’s, Watts, Bed Stuy’s and vast urban wastelands where the majority of our people are still victimized by Amerikan colonization, plantationism and the Willie Lynch Syndrome. Evidently they have turned a blind eye to the poverty and miss-education with its resultant violence and despair. I believe their bank accounts cause a weird sort of myopia that distorts their vision.

We ain’t just talkin’ about you Smokie, in your Hollywood Hills mansion, we’re talkin’ about the sista in da hood on food stamps because of generational racism and classism and sexism and all the other isms that Amerikkka breeds and fosters. That is the majority of us. Not the talented 10th nor the precious few, but the majority of us.

While I love Smokie and have enjoyed his writings and his music for more than 3 decades, I think the brother is misguided if he doesn’t see the point of connecting with our roots. AND OUR ROOTS ARE IN AFRIKA!

One last comment in the form of question.

Why is it ok for people from the continent of Europe to identify with their cultural lineage but its not ok for us?

Irish-Americans have no problems identifying with their homeland. Italian Americans don’t go through this foolishness. German-Americans don’t bicker among themselves as to whether they have a connection to Europe.

I think this whole dialog just speaks to the thoroughness of what Willie proposed on the banks of the James River back in 1712.

It is my firm belief that if we don’t embrace our heritage, our roots, our Afrika, we’ll never come up from under the thumb of this oppressive white supremacist society.

And please pardon me for being so long-winded…you know how us black folk are ;)

Brother Isiah, I posted a long response to you but I guess it didn't take.

Firstly, I busted out laughing at your post when you talked about spanking those children. YOu are right, I should have done that myself.

I do hope you go to Africa. We need to share our stories.

I think many of us are victims of colonized minds. Certainly, Afrakans are. We have one up on them in that most of us know who the enemy is and how they have affected our very souls. By then again, maybe not!

We cannot let Toubab off the hook my brother. When many of us think of AFrica, we think of war, rumors of war, famine, wild animals, starvation, and strife.

Never peace, serenity, beauty, love, family, culture, food falling off trees, organic vegetables, fresh meat without hormones and antibiotics, fishing villages galore and people walking aroung just as peaceful and chilling like I saw in Senegal.

They are literally starving for Africans from the diaspora to bring our, skills, our raggae, our hip hop culture, our great history to them. I'm telling you the truth brother. They want to learn english so bad so that they can relate to us and all the great positive things we do in amerikkka.

You are right brother Isiah, we are a great people here in amerikkka. If we could use our greatness, our positivety and share it with our people there. Wow wow! In-sha-Allah, it is going to happen. OUr genious cannot be supressed!

The African culture is so strong there, so untapped by us, so vital there, if we could unite and work together for the betterment of our people. Wow, it is scary thought. Believe me, toubab knows it.

Poverty? Yes, but most have food clothing and shelter. I did not see one starving child in Casamance in the villiage I stayed at for 3 days.

Do you know how many people in amerikkka asked me if I saw lions and tigers and the jungle? Oh my God!

I told them there was none of the above in West Africa. We are victims of media literacy controlled by white supremists.

White people want us to think like Smokey so we Africans of the diaspora won't go there. So we won't see our cousins walking down the street. So we won't see how we can use our resources and skills to build a bridge between ourselves and our continent.

Yet, they are there, thank God I didn't see hardly any, loving it. Loving the weather, the land, the resources, while we sit back and say Africa ain't for me.

Isn't that insane! What white person has ever said "europe ain't for me". What asian has ever said "asia ain't for me" What the hell is wrong with us!

Now I'm going on a rampage. Let me calm down.

Afraka is ours brother, take it, love it, help it. Peace, Jama, Hotep.

I*n regards to the sentiment that we Americans do not consider ourselves African: anyone remember that Chris Rock joke about flunking Black History 'cuz he didn't know anything about Africa? He says all he knew about Africa is that it was far...... Many of us here in Americam feel this way. (As I demonstrated on the thread "sum questions"). I have not heard Smokey's poem, but I would like to. It may have a few hidden meanings.......

Toylin, I think someone posted at the beginning of this post. It's on one of the proceeding pages.

Toylin, I think someone posted at the beginning of this post. It's on one of the proceeding pages.

When i say that, I mean I have not had the honor of seeing/hearing Smokey perform the piece. Even if there is link to audio/visual, my comp won't support it right noe.. not enough memory. I'll have to try and catch a re-run on TV one night.