Spirituality Religion : Why are some black people so uninformed about African Traditional Religions

[Sekhemu]

Originally Posted by jamesfrmphilly

what? how do you pronounce that?
where is the accent?

The accent is in the cupboard, next to the rest of the seasoning

[Ralfa'il]

River

I'm enjoying it too.
I'm really very extremely immensely proud of you, Ralf.
Keep doing whatcha doing

Ahhhm, see you got me blushing and glowing right now.

It's always good to have you on my side, all 5 foot 1 of ya






Sek

I thought I made it clear that the larger black community has a disdain for these systems and that this site was simply a microcosm of black america.

Most of the larger black community has no idea that these religions exist, let alone know what they teach so how can you assume that they disdain them?

Yes some of our ancestors used these powers when we were enslaved, but as I said to you before, all things are cyclical. Some of our sages did warn us of the impending doom, but many a chieftain failed to take head.

Suffice it to say, somethings are written in stone and cannot be averted, nor should they be.

True...

The Kaballah was taught by Moors in spain to Jews who migrated there to learn. without going too far off the topic, the temple of Kom Ombo on the nile has the glyph of the tree of life with the corresponding sephiroth on it.

If anyone was teaching the Kaballah...it was the Jews who picked it up in Babylon.

The enemies I'm talking about are the 13 bloodline families of Europe. You can read a book called Rule By Secrecy, by Jim Marrs, he identifies these families.

Our ancestors in Khemet Via of Rome and The Moors of Spain taught them all manner of ritual magick, and they have use methods ranging from the Golden Dawn to Scottish Rite Freemasonry, to the Order of the Black Sun and the Thule society, take your pick.

All of them corrupted and bastardized adaptations of African Spiritual Rituals

I gave you the source and I gave you reference to guide you to further sources, you can take it or leave it alone.

Thanks.

I really learned something reading this.

Serioiusly I'm gonna look more into this, I think David Ike mentions this as well does he not?

True some brothas and sistahs who are part of ATR's do kill and fight each other, but the spiritual system is not what caused them to fight each other, infact most of the fighting you talk about between Africans is not between ATR's but between ATR societies, and muslims or christians.

Any excuse you make for people who practice ATRs who fight and kill eachother, you can make for Jews, Muslims, and those who practice other faiths.

Indeed entire ATR societies were killed off by misuided christians and muslims under the durest of their European and Arab Masters.

Are you sure "entire societies" were killed off by Muslims?

I never heard this before.

I know Christians did this in the Americas, never heard of Muslims doing it.

Moreover, none of the black folks who fight and carry on as you say, are doing anything in the way of obscuring the knowledge or tolerance of the various existing ATR systems.

Unfortunately, the same can hardly be said with respect to Many Christians or Muslims

James has asked that I lay of of discussing Chrisitanity and Islam in this thread but since you're bringing it up in comparison let me say:

Actually many African societies who follow strict traditional beliefs are far more intolerant than other societies that profess Christianity or Islam.

Not all, but many and probably even most.

In most ecumenical countries like Nigeria, Ethiopia, and South Africa you can be a Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or practice just about any religion you want.

But in some rural communities you MUST follow the religion of your ancestors and family or you will be thrown out the community.

They don't have books, scrolls, or any other material to read on other faiths.....only their traditions and religion is allow.

That's what I call intolerance.

For the same reason my name is pronounced Shekhemu instead of Sekhemu, the H is silent

If the "H" is silent then it's pronounced "Asay" instead of "Ashay"

If the "H" is silent in your name then it's NOT "Shekhemu" but "Sekemu".

But if the "H" is silent, why even spell it with an "H" at all...leave it out.

It's a foreign word not originated in the English language, so you're not forced or bound by grammatical laws to spell it that way.


I went a round with Samurai of why he chose to spell Anunakki as "Anunaqqi".

What's all these "Q's" for when you can just use a "K"?

Sometimes I think yall are just trying to be cute or different.

One more thing I'd like to add about Knowledge. The mystery schools in Khemet made a concerted not to divulge high secrets to non-initiates, and foreigners in particuliar.

This was done because as you know knowledge is power, and it would be irresponsible to divulge sacred information to people who were unworthy of it.

In the context of this tradition, knowledge is earned, as well as a privilage

This was a grand and classic statement, I can understand the secrecy.

[Sekhemu]

Originally Posted by Ralfa'il

River


Ahhhm, see you got me blushing and glowing right now.

It's always good to have you on my side, all 5 foot 1 of ya






Sek




Most of the larger black community has no idea that these religions exist, let alone know what they teach so how can you assume that they disdain them?





True...




If anyone was teaching the Kaballah...it was the Jews who picked it up in Babylon.




Thanks.

I really learned something reading this.

Serioiusly I'm gonna look more into this, I think David Ike mentions this as well does he not?





Any excuse you make for people who practice ATRs who fight and kill eachother, you can make for Jews, Muslims, and those who practice other faiths.




Are you sure "entire societies" were killed off by Muslims?

I never heard this before.

I know Christians did this in the Americas, never heard of Muslims doing it.




James has asked that I lay of of discussing Chrisitanity and Islam in this thread but since you're bringing it up in comparison let me say:

Actually many African societies who follow strict traditional beliefs are far more intolerant than other societies that profess Christianity or Islam.

Not all, but many and probably even most.

In most ecumenical countries like Nigeria, Ethiopia, and South Africa you can be a Jew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or practice just about any religion you want.

But in some rural communities you MUST follow the religion of your ancestors and family or you will be thrown out the community.

They don't have books, scrolls, or any other material to read on other faiths.....only their traditions and religion is allow.

That's what I call intolerance.






If the "H" is silent then it's pronounced "Asay" instead of "Ashay"

If the "H" is silent in your name then it's NOT "Shekhemu" but "Sekemu".

But if the "H" is silent, why even spell it with an "H" at all...leave it out.

It's a foreign word not originated in the English language, so you're not forced or bound by grammatical laws to spell it that way.


I went a round with Samurai of why he chose to spell Anunakki as "Anunaqqi".

What's all these "Q's" for when you can just use a "K"?

Sometimes I think yall are just trying to be cute or different.




This was a grand and classic statement, I can understand the secrecy.

The world has become much smaller my friend, and I've travelled extensively in and outside of this country. But one thing I know for sure, in my travels around the United States, that most of the black americans I've come in contact with, most of them, christian and muslim have heard about ATR's. Especially Vodun.


Nobody is making excuses for why some black people fight each other, but again, having travelled in Afrca, and doing a good deal of research on this issue, I can't say I've seen or heard much in the way of ATR's routinely killing each other off or starting wars based on the systems they subscribe to.

WHen I say secret societies I'm not refering to them in the judeo-christian sense of the word. but here is a link I think you might be interested in reading

http://www.turnersouth.com/southolog...,,1345,00.html


What rural communities are you referring to that are in the habit telling their people, they MUST follow in the religions of their ancestors or be thrown out of the community. Can you please show us documentation of this practice, if this be true, it is the exception and not the rule.

[Ralfa'il]

Sek

The world has become much smaller my friend, and I've travelled extensively in and outside of this country. But one thing I know for sure, in my travels around the United States, that most of the black americans I've come in contact with, most of them, christian and muslim have heard about ATR's. Especially Vodun.

I can't dispute what you know, I can only recount my own experiences of most of our people being ignorant of most ATRs except for Christianity and Islam.

Most of our people don't even know what Vodun is and think Voo Doo is a Haitian religion.

Nobody is making excuses for why some black people fight each other, but again, having travelled in Afrca, and doing a good deal of research on this issue, I can't say I've seen or heard much in the way of ATR's routinely killing each other off or starting wars based on the systems they subscribe to.

What about when they take drugs and see visions that claim their "gods" and "ancestors" are instructing them to fight for their own tribe and conquer the other tribe to get revenge for some misdeed?

What rural communities are you referring to that are in the habit telling their people, they MUST follow in the religions of their ancestors or be thrown out of the community. Can you please show us documentation of this practice, if this be true, it is the exception and not the rule.

I've known many people who say this but I can't dig up anything off the internet right now.

You're right though, it's now the exception instead of the rule.

[Sekhemu]

Originally Posted by Ralfa'il

Sek




I can't dispute what you know, I can only recount my own experiences of most of our people being ignorant of most ATRs except for Christianity and Islam.

Most of our people don't even know what Vodun is and think Voo Doo is a Haitian religion.




What about when they take drugs and see visions that claim their "gods" and "ancestors" are instructing them to fight for their own tribe and conquer the other tribe to get revenge for some misdeed?





I've known many people who say this but I can't dig up anything off the internet right now.

You're right though, it's now the exception instead of the rule.

What about when they take drugs and see visions that claim their "gods" and "ancestors" are instructing them to fight for their own tribe and conquer the other tribe to get revenge for some misdeed?

Ok, what about it. I've never come across this hypothetical scenario before, and I'm willing to concede this may very well have happened somewhere in the past.

But once again, this is the exception not the rule, and this does not speak to the mindset that many black people TODAY have with respect to ATR's.

[Akilah]

Originally Posted by river

Plus you are not open with people as to what ATR is about. Case in point--your argument with Ralf today. You wanted him to believe that you have knowledge not available by the ordinary means people use to gain knowledge. You gave no indication about how you gained this knowledge. You just wanted him to beelieve that and became angry when he did not. I'm not taking up for Ralf. I'm just saying that his response is no different from the way most people would respond. Maybe as an initiate you've been sworn to secrecy and really couldn't tell him anything about the nature of your knowledge. I don't know but most people would feel no more inclined to look into the initiation process than Ralf was. It would be like telling people to send you their money first and then they can find out what you are selling.

I'm not criticizing you, Sek, just giving you some perspective on how people who aren't in the system think. This "I know something that you don't know" attitude and approach is not going to get folks interested.

Thank God for Sistah River.... she expressed exactly what I failed to communicate... This is what I was referring to when I said that black folk would prolly be more interested in learning about ATR's if the initiates were more willing to discuss these practices "generously & without suspicion"... It's like some initiates expect you to totally denounce your own faith before they are willing to divulge ANY specifics concerning ATR's ...I've even seen sum Bruthas on this site imply that a particular "non-initiate" was UNWORTHY to receive this sacred knowledge... If you want to steer folks to your way of
thinking, should'nt you be more open and welcoming and not so elitist and secretive ??? I mean, is it a spiritual path or a membership to a social club ??? And I personally don't believe that MOST black folks think that ATR's are evil and demonic...Alot of us celebrate Kwanzaa which includes rituals that are borrowed from ATR's. At every first fruit celebration that I've attended folks appeared to be enjoying themselves and felt immense pride in the african drumming and dance troupes, afrocentric cuisine, african attire, acknowledgement and blessings of and from the ancestors and so forth... No one look offended, scurred, nor disturbed.

[Sekhemu]

Originally Posted by Akilah

Thank God for Sistah River.... she expressed exactly what I failed to communicate... This is what I was referring to when I said that black folk would prolly be more interested in learning about ATR's if the initiates were more willing to discuss these practices "generously & without suspicion"... It's like some initiates expect you to totally denounce your own faith before they are willing to divulge ANY specifics concerning ATR's ...I've even seen sum Bruthas on this site imply that a particular "non-initiate" was UNWORTHY to receive this sacred knowledge... If you want to steer folks to your way of
thinking, should'nt you be more open and welcoming and not so elitist and secretive ??? I mean, is it a spiritual path or a membership to a social club ??? And I personally don't believe that MOST black folks think that ATR's are evil and demonic...Alot of us celebrate Kwanzaa which includes rituals that are borrowed from ATR's. At every first fruit celebration that I've attended folks appeared to be enjoying themselves and felt immense pride in the african drumming and dance troupes, afrocentric cuisine, african attire, acknowledgement and blessings of and from the ancestors and so forth... No one look offended, scurred, nor disturbed.

For your perusal Akilah

http://destee.com/forums/showthread....3&page=2&pp=10

Kwango Likemba's reply addresses some of the issues you raise.

[Akilah]

Yes..I'm reading our Sister Kwango's posts... and although she may have held back a small portion of info, look at ALL she DID share ! That's what I'm talkin' bout... I don't think anyone is foolish enough to expect initiates to share every single aspect with the uninitiated, BUT you have to be willing to share something if you expect black folks to be open to ATR's...if not the practice of them then at least the acceptance of them. How can you despair about us being uninformed if you are unwilling TO inform ??? That's all I'm saying...

[info-moetry]

Originally Posted by Akilah

Yes..I'm reading our Sister Kwango's posts... and although she may have held back a small portion of info, look at ALL she DID share ! That's what I'm talkin' bout... I don't think anyone is foolish enough to expect initiates to share every single aspect with the uninitiated, BUT you have to be willing to share something if you expect black folks to be open to ATR's...if not the practice of them then at least the acceptance of them. How can you despair about us being uninformed if you are unwilling TO inform ??? That's all I'm saying...

peace Queen,

EXACTLY,

even in the bible Jesus say "There are MANY things I could show/Tell you, but Ye are NOT READY to RECEIVE it..........."

he and Moses both STUDIED in EGYPT in the "mystery schools" where you can't be a student unless you have something to give.........and on top of that the password that Masons have corrupted.............to make themselves feel just......................

sorry for ranting Queen, please forgive me



peace...........

[Sekhemu]

Originally Posted by Akilah

Yes..I'm reading our Sister Kwango's posts... and although she may have held back a small portion of info, look at ALL she DID share ! That's what I'm talkin' bout... I don't think anyone is foolish enough to expect initiates to share every single aspect with the uninitiated, BUT you have to be willing to share something if you expect black folks to be open to ATR's...if not the practice of them then at least the acceptance of them. How can you despair about us being uninformed if you are unwilling TO inform ??? That's all I'm saying...

You have taken this far too personal. If you read the first part of the thread you'll notice I posed a question addressing the fact that the majority of the black community have a inordinate lack of knowledge regarding this tradition. Not to be funny sistah, although Kwanzaa uses several principles borrowed from some African traditions, it stops far short of invoking an ancestor for possession, pouring libations or making offerings..

On the contrary I have shared quite a bit, and have given a whole litany of references, but like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it.

however this is not what the subject of the thread is about. It is not about me! it is about the historical and institutional denegration of ATR's on the part of Institutionalized religion, and the fall out that has trickled down to the masses of our people.