Black Spirituality Religion : Prophesies

[skrybble7]

You site: Jer 1:
4: Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I site: Isaiah 44: Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Same Isaiah but he’s referring to Cyrus here. God knows everyone from the womb…

You say: The prophets of the Old Testament were equivalent to what we call today street bums and homeless people.

I say consider Daniel, Joseph, King David himself to name a few. And even your Isaiah. They spent most if not all their lives in very very influential positions.

You say: We can see one Prophet depicted as eating cows dung.

I say, he didn’t “eat” the dung he prepared his food with it. If I’m not mistaken it makes for cooking fuel when no wood is available.

They accused Jesus of everything under the sun not only being mad but having a devil etc…


Anyway, I’d love to discuss a myriad topics with you but for now I’d like to stick to the first questions of Jeremiah dieing and being resurrected and for our sins at that. I could be wrong
But I don’t think this was even close to being established.

 

[Music Producer]

I think I see a clear point of disagreement that may or may not make this discussion moot.
You require a “Thus saith the Lord” qualification in order to believe that the Lord is speaking. I don’t know exactly what your basis is for believing this to be the exclusive indicator that God is speaking.

On the other hand, I believe as it is written in the same book, that Jesus is the Word of God. So if He is the Word of God it stands to reason that each time Jesus speaks, God is in fact speaking. So on the basis of scripture, I know Jesus to be the Word of God.

Given this, I refer back to your question, “What did God reveal to Jesus?”
I would say God revealed to Jesus everything that came out of Jesus mouth throughout the whole New Testament. Every parable, every prophesy, every expounding of the law, every miracle, and surely the crucifixion that He suffered on our behalf just as Isaiah described.

However if the case is that you do not believe in the new testament than there is no point in this particular discussion to deal with the new testament.

Again, I ask exactly what indication was there that Jeremiah died for our sins?
I see that you require absolute strict adherence to the explicit “thus saith the Lord”
In order to believe the Word of God, yet no such standard is applied to this believed death and resurrection of Jeremiah. Nothing that you have sited actually shows he died and was resurrected. Let alone that he died for our sins.
You say that only Jeremiah himself can tell us what happened. I say that he did tell us.
Jeremiah wrote the book Jeremiah. And it explicitly says that he did not die.
You make reference to lamentations and site figurative, poetic speech as an explicit declaration of his death and resurrection. But I’ve shown you were that figure of speech was used elsewhere by others and clearly did not mean what you claim.
Do you believe King David died and was resurrected? Psalms is FULL of that poetic language.
So the focal point of my initiating this discussion with you is to establish weather or not Jeremiah died and what’s more, that he died for our sins. Isaiah does not bare this out.
If you have a figurative statement in Lamentations and a literal statement in Jeremiah(both of which Jeremiah wrote) which carries more weight?

Also I’m sure I’ll find those translation sites very interesting if not very useful.
God bless

I think I see a clear point of disagreement that may or may not make this discussion moot.
You require a “Thus saith the Lord” qualification in order to believe that the Lord is speaking. I don’t know exactly what your basis is for believing this to be the exclusive indicator that God is speaking.

Deu 18:
16: According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17: And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18: I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

How do you perceive that Scripture?

On the other hand, I believe as it is written in the same book, that Jesus is the Word of God. So if He is the Word of God it stands to reason that each time Jesus speaks, God is in fact speaking. So on the basis of scripture, I know Jesus to be the Word of God.

GOD Himself never informs you of that. That type of perception is exactly how the people that conquered Israel and Judah need you to think and believe so that you will reject your own GOD, which is our Power.

Gen:32:28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

When our conquers read those words they immediately began devising a plan to keep the Children of Israel away from GOD. The New Testament serves to accomplish that.

However if the case is that you do not believe in the new testament than there is no point in this particular discussion to deal with the new testament.

I believe in the New Testament in that they fulfill much prophesy from the Old Testament, such as…

Deut:4:28: And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.

Deut:28:36: The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone.

Deut:28:64: And the LORD shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.

There are many more but you should began to see GODs point of view. The Old Testament ends with the Covenant broken and the nation of Israel, Judah and Kemet destroyed as it is this day, yet you ignore reality and believe Jesus is and was the Messiah even though our Kingdoms set in ruins and infested by the very people that had a hand in conquering us as a nation and religion.

Ezek:7:24: Wherefore I will bring the worst of the heathen, and they shall possess their houses: I will also make the pomp of the strong to cease; and their holy places shall be defiled.

That is how the Old Testament ends and that is how the entire land sets today. The original people are scattered in the earth and descendants of slaves or suffering in hunger and starvation, yet you say our Messiah has come and died for our sins. If that were the case all of the curses GOD placed upon us for breaking the Covenant would have been canceled through Jesus’ death. The reality of life, history and our condition today proves the New Testament to be a fabrication that tests your Love for GOD.

Again, I ask exactly what indication was there that Jeremiah died for our sins?

You need to look at the web pages I presented to you and get a Hebrew word for word interpretation of the passage. Once you do that then we can began looking at your question because the Hebrew passage does not support a soul or person being sacrificed for sin. GOD conceders the sacrifice of humans an abomination.

Deut:12:31: Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

Yet you believe GOD Himself would commit such an act with Jesus, HIS Son. See how believing in Jesus as presented by heathens causes you to blaspheme decreed Doctrine of GOD, decreed LAWs of the LORD?

You can not serve and have faith in the New Testament as presented with out denouncing the bulk of the Old Testament. You can not serve two masters.

 

[skrybble7]

You say: You need to look at the web pages I presented to you and get a Hebrew word for word interpretation of the passage. Once you do that then we can began looking at your question because the Hebrew passage does not support a soul or person being sacrificed for sin. GOD conceders the sacrifice of humans an abomination.

This is from the very source you site: 9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.' 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:11 Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

It is very clear to me that this is about someone who was sacrificed(killed) for the sin of others. It’s all right there. And it “PLEASED” the Lord. I could get into the fact that Jesus is more than just a man, but truly it would be pointless.

I see that you choose out the parts of the Bible that you want to believe. I find that to be a sad mistake made by so many. I must say that the Bible is truly harmonious within itself as my many years of study have born out. One big problem is that many take bits and pieces of the Bible and twist it to their own ends. I’ve found over the years that biblical discussions with people who do not believe in the Bible is usually futile. Also the same with people who choose out the parts they wish to believe.
Don’t get me wrong, I ain’t mad at a brotha. But if we can’t get passed the fact that the very sources you site don’t say what you think they say i.e. Jeremiah drowning and being resurrected for some unknown purpose, than this whole discussion is moot.
I wish you peace and blessings.

 

[Music Producer]

You site: Jer 1:
4: Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I site: Isaiah 44: Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Same Isaiah but he’s referring to Cyrus here. God knows everyone from the womb…

You say: The prophets of the Old Testament were equivalent to what we call today street bums and homeless people.

I say consider Daniel, Joseph, King David himself to name a few. And even your Isaiah. They spent most if not all their lives in very very influential positions.

You say: We can see one Prophet depicted as eating cows dung.

I say, he didn’t “eat” the dung he prepared his food with it. If I’m not mistaken it makes for cooking fuel when no wood is available.

They accused Jesus of everything under the sun not only being mad but having a devil etc…


Anyway, I’d love to discuss a myriad topics with you but for now I’d like to stick to the first questions of Jeremiah dieing and being resurrected and for our sins at that. I could be wrong
But I don’t think this was even close to being established.

You site: Jer 1:
4: Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
5: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

I site: Isaiah 44: Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Same Isaiah but he’s referring to Cyrus here. God knows everyone from the womb…

You are loosing focus as to Isaiah 53:2 being a reference to Jesus. I have no idea as to your reference to Isa 44:24 in relating to this topic. It has absolutely no reference in you claim that Isa 53:2 is prophesying about Jesus. If it does you need to elaborate.

You say: The prophets of the Old Testament were equivalent to what we call today street bums and homeless people.

No, this is what I said…….

The Prophets became considered as mad (crazy) people that no one wanted to deal with.

They “BECAME”. As Israel and Judah went deeper and deeper in becoming heathens they disrespected and despised the Prophet more and more.

I say consider Daniel, Joseph, King David himself to name a few. And even your Isaiah. They spent most if not all their lives in very very influential positions.

Now you are starting to take things out of contexts. Daniel is after the destruction of our kingdom. Joseph was before we were formed as a nation and kingdom. David the King was during a time when we were being loyal to GOD. During Isaiah’s time we began to see this roller coaster of ups and downs as to the well being of the Prophet.

As the Kings of the Children of Israel and Judah fell from the Covenant of GOD and started practicing heathen religions there would be no need for a Prophet of GOD to be within the royal assembly because the Prophets of GOD would have not ministered heathen religions thus they would have been banned, thrown out, fired and without a job during the times of Israel and Judah serving heathen religions and they would not have enjoyed influential positions during these low times.

I say, he didn’t “eat” the dung he prepared his food with it. If I’m not mistaken it makes for cooking fuel when no wood is available.

Ezekiel 4 paints a different picture from what you want to accept or believe. But if it was only relating to using the dung for cooking fuel why would Ezekiel say this…..

14: Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.

?

I see by your references and disconnected comments that you are starting to loose ground because when the Old Testament are examined with detail and studied as an entire text there is no foundation for presenting Jesus as he is presented, thus Servants of Jesus have to start grabbing at straws and making disconnected or out of context references which is how the entire New Testament has been established. It is a cut and paste religion invented to keep a specific bloodline of people from seeing and recognizing their GOD.

 

[skrybble7]

Ok let me try again…

If this: Lam:3:53: They have cut off my life in the dungeon, and cast a stone upon me.
54: Waters flowed over mine head; then I said, I am cut off.
55: I called upon thy name, O LORD, out of the low dungeon.
Means that Jeremiah drowned
Than does this: Psalms 69: 1 Save me, O God; for the waters are come in unto my soul. 2 I sink in deep mire, where there is no standing: I am come into deep waters, where the floods overflow me.
Mean that David drown also?(side note: I said Psalm 62 but it is Psalm 69)

Or maybe it’s the part he says about being “cut off”
So than does this: Psalms 31:22 - For I said in my haste, I am cut off from before thine eyes: nevertheless thou heardest the voice of my supplications when I cried unto thee.

mean that David drowned?

Or how about Jonah? At least here there was some real water envolved:Jonah 2: 5 The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head. 6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Did Jonah drown?
The connection being the “figurative” and “symbolic” language.
Very simple questions… I’m looking for a yes or no here.
Did David drown? Did Jonah drown?